Justice

[Josh]

I'm actually trying to figure out your thinking. Because if we're supposed to obey the law, then obviously lethal self defense and death penalties are acceptable and you don't prescribe to that.

Prevention is certainly wise, but not everyone is going to be so fortunate as to avoid every criminals.

Well, I believe we should follow Christ who fulfilled the law and taught us to live to an even higher standard, which includes not seeking earthly vengeance.

Our job on earth is to promote following Christ, not try to figure out how people can live prosperous, orderly lives without Christ.

[ken_sylvania]

What is justice? We often hear "justice needs to be served" or perhaps "she deserves justice." What exactly do we mean, and exactly how does that look? Does it look different if the victim of the injustice is alive vs deceased? It is my studied opinion that we have no idea what justice is, and furthermore it is impossible to serve justice in the case of a dead person. Mostly we are crying for revenge or punishment.

I agree. I think many times we use the word "justice" when what we actually mean is "judgment."

James writes "So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment."

[Signtist]

Josh, if justice is important, what exactly does it look like? So far you've said God has the answers. Make sure a perp can't reoffend. And don't put yourself in a position where crimes can be committed against you. Also you said forgiveness is important.

So justice would mean you would seek maximum sentence for a rapist or murder?

[Signtist]

I don't have answers, BTW. I only have questions.

[Ken]

What is justice? We often hear "justice needs to be served" or perhaps "she deserves justice." What exactly do we mean, and exactly how does that look? Does it look different if the victim of the injustice is alive vs deceased? It is my studied opinion that we have no idea what justice is, and furthermore it is impossible to serve justice in the case of a dead person. Mostly we are crying for revenge or punishment.

When people say such things they aren't actually calling for justice. They are calling for punishment. Which is not the same thing.

An actual definition would be more like this one from the Legal Information Institute at Cornell Law School:

Justice is the ethical, philosophical idea that people are to be treated impartially, fairly, properly, and reasonably by the law and by arbiters of the law, that laws are to ensure that no harm befalls another, and that, where harm is alleged, a remedial action is taken - both the accuser and the accused receive a morally right consequence merited by their actions

This is more along the lines of the meaning of someone like Martin Luther King who often wrote and spoke about unjust laws and the actual meaning of justice. In other words, "justice" is a principle not an outcome.

[NedFlanders]

Is it justice when someone is put out of the church? I think so. We are called to do that if actions require it but it is meant to ultimately be restorative.

I think responsibility is critical for us humans and so much so that without consequences associated to it - it doesn’t mean much. Why else would God have punishment in regards to judgement and not only making everything right being only positive.

Punishment therefore is meant to be restorative. I believe that is one reason why God allows civil government and for it to rule by the sword. And not just for keeping others safe but the life sentence to a rapist or murderer may be the best consequence for their actions to aid them in recognizing the responsibility they need to take leading them to beg God for mercy and finding the transforming power in Christ.

Well that may not answer the question of justice as it relates directly to the victims - I think it is ultimate justice for the perpetrator when they find the end of themselves and are broken over the Rock.

[ohio jones]

I try to avoid putting myself in situations around murderers.

How do you identify murderers so you know who to avoid?

[Josh]

I try to avoid putting myself in situations around murderers.

How do you identify murderers so you know who to avoid?

Statistical analysis is a good way to start. I live 30 minutes from a city with one of the highest murder rates in America. There are some simple steps to take:

#1, avoid doing things that give someone a reason to want to kill you. So I don't get involved in things like drug deals.

#2, avoid going places that murders happen a lot. So I avoid certain places. These can easily be found online, but virtually everyone who lives around here already knows what to avoid.

#3, avoid being a violent, hotheaded person yourself. Every murder starts with a much smaller bad choice. If certain situations keep making you upset, avoid those situations. Peaceful people don't want to be around upset, angry people.

#4, if you see a group of people who you have reasonable cause to believe may be prone to random acts of violence, leave and spend your time somewhere else, unless you have a very good reason for staying. Sometimes, this is as simple as "hmm, I'm in Indiana, in the parking lot of a Subway about to close in 10 minutes, and car just rolled in with Illinois plates. Time to leave."

[Josh]

Josh, if justice is important, what exactly does it look like? So far you've said God has the answers. Make sure a perp can't reoffend. And don't put yourself in a position where crimes can be committed against you. Also you said forgiveness is important.

So justice would mean you would seek maximum sentence for a rapist or murder?

If you want a legal system of justice, look no further than the OT law.

If you want God's ultimate plan, then look in the New Testament and see how each of us to live. Jesus was a just person. We can follow him and live like he did.

At the final judgment, each person will be called to give an account. Those who decide not to accept Christ will face eternal judgment for their deeds. That is God's plan of justice, and it does seem very severe.

[Neto]

To truly understand justice, though, we can simply read the Bible. God even gave us a perfect law code so that we can understand what is just.

We have ample instruction for how to treat each other equitably. But what is the Biblical advice for when that code of ethics is broken?

This is a situation where it is easier to give advice than it is to accept the same from another.

My mind turns immediately to the time I urged the father of a young man who had been shot (with he result that he died the following day) to allow God to deal with the shooter. This was a severe test for this Christian Banawa man, whose whole world view said that it was not only his right, but his DUTY, to kill the killer. It was (and is) a constant testimony to me of the power of true redemption than he agreed to this painful choice, and has faithfully followed that promise. (And he was a fairly new Believer at that time, too.)