If conservative Anabaptist was "right", why are there virtually no churches in major cities?

[Ken]

https://www.curbed.com/2023/05/san-fran ... -loop.html

According to the latest census, 80% of the US population is urban and only 20% is rural. That means there are a LOT more places to live, work, and evangelize in urban America than downtown San Francisco. In fact, San Francisco itself is only 10% of the greater San Francisco Bay metropolitan area. If you want to evangelize and church plant in urban America you literally have 80% of the country to choose from.

Rural areas are also hardly free of crime and social problems. What is the crime rate in say rural Madras Oregon compared to any random city in suburban Portland? Should we check? How about we compare rural red Madras to urban blue Camas in the Portland metro area since we have connections to both cities.

Hmmmm......https://www.bestplaces.net/crime/

[RZehr]

Did you read, actually-actually read, the link? Or did you quickly scan it and head right to Sperlings lickety-split?

[RZehr]

A woman with smart eyes and a dirty sweatshirt, 50-ish, drunk, approached me near the corner of Market and 4th Streets. We shared the sidewalk with Urban Alchemy crews made of formerly incarcerated people now dedicated to bringing peace and compassion to the streets, stunned tourists, official San Francisco Welcome Ambassadors in their orange jackets, and young Evangelists with microphones and a taste for filibustering — “We can die tonight, and if we die in our sin, and if you die in your sin …”

Sounds like they have street preacher. As does Madras.

Thousands of people gathered in Dolores Park, where the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence put on their annual Hunky Jesus and Foxy Mary contests. The Sisters, a blessedly campy order of activists, first sprang to life in 1979. Its mission: to use drag plus religious tropes to satirize fake notions of morality and brotherly love. One of the 50-plus Hunky Jesus contestants happened to be a guy who worked out at my gym. I’d see him pressing up from seated splits into handstands while the rest of us grimaced through plank. Now here he was, carrying a large wooden cross up a wide green lawn and pole dancing on it. “This is Ron DeSantis’s worst nightmare,” State Senator Scott Wiener said to the assembled. This was the most exuberant thing I’d seen in the city in three years. San Francisco when it still believed in itself. San Francisco before it marinated, then soured, in performative politics and neoliberal greed. Everyone here, hooting at the hunky Jesus, felt lucky.

Can’t recall ever seeing the likes of this blasphemy celebrated just yet though.

Does Sperlings have any data on street preaching, or blasphemous drag shows?

[Josh]

Chris, I have a good friend who lives by sincere Anabaptist values and also lives right in the middle of a city. Not a suburb, an actual city. He would be delighted for a family like yours to move into the area. He is also very pro homeschooling.

Perhaps you should connect more with folks like him? I’d be happy to put both of you in touch. Send me a PM and we can exchange numbers and I’ll give you a call.

[danfreed]

To Zehr,

The New York Magazine article was very depressing ...
"Spiraling in San Francisco’s Doom Loop
What it’s like to live in
a city that no longer believes its problems can be fixed."

But, consider this - sometimes when a person or a city reaches the proverbial "bottom of the barrel"
they are open to learning about the ONE who can fix the impossible...
Jesus is that ONE; He came to give hope for the hopeless, beauty for ashes, water in the desert, freedom for the captive, joy for mourning, life from the dead, forgiveness of sins, and a fresh start.

Romans 5:20-21 gives me great hope for San Francisco and all the 8 billion people in the world...
"But as people sinned more and more, God’s wonderful grace became more abundant. So just as sin ruled over all people and brought them to death, now God’s wonderful grace rules instead, giving us right standing with God and resulting in eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

[danfreed]

To Chris...

You and I can't reach 8 billion, but we can be stewards of the opportunities that God gives us.
We can't be Apostle Paul, Menno Simons, William Carey, Mother Mary, Joseph, Mother Teresa, Dwight Moody, Billy Graham, Ernie, Dan Z, or anyone, except ourselves.
And we can pray, pray, pray.

The more I focus on me and on the sins of others, the less I engage in the mission of Jesus.
But when I trust in the wonderful grace of Jesus, looking at His example of relating to people, I can move from fear of people, to engagement with them, in the power of the Holy Spirit.

Also, so much inspiration from John 17 which is Jesus prayer for us to be engaged in the world, yet protected from the evil.
His prayer is for all believers in Jesus, not just for certain denominations of churches.
He desires unity in His followers, unity which will move the watching world to know and to believe in Him.


I'm am praying that God will give you, not one, but several partners in the Gospel in the weeks ahead.
Also a surprise opportunity, to share the Good News of Jesus with someone in your own neighborhood (or current circle of influence) this very weekend.

[Ken]

Did you read, actually-actually read, the link? Or did you quickly scan it and head right to Sperlings lickety-split?

Yes I read it. San Francisco is kind of a mess right now. But how is that relevant to the subject at hand? We live in a vast country and that is one tiny corner. Due in part because San Francisco tried to turn itself into a theme park rather than a real city. Large stretches of rural America are also a mess, mired in crime, addiction, poverty, despair, and dysfunction. Is that an indictment on rural life and rural lifestyles?

[RZehr]

Did you read, actually-actually read, the link? Or did you quickly scan it and head right to Sperlings lickety-split?

Yes I read it. San Francisco is kind of a mess right now. But how is that relevant to the subject at hand? We live in a vast country and that is one tiny corner. Parts of rural America are also a mess, mired in crime, addiction, poverty, and dysfunction. Is that an indictment on rural life and rural lifestyles?

It probably doesn't have terribly much bearing on the core of this thread I suppose. I guess these are the sorts of cases where conservative Mennonites look at, and say get me and my family out of Sodom. Just the sense that all discipline is gone from society. It is chaos. We don't even like being in a church with no discipline.

[Josh]

Yes I read it. San Francisco is kind of a mess right now. But how is that relevant to the subject at hand? We live in a vast country and that is one tiny corner. Due in part because San Francisco tried to turn itself into a theme park rather than a real city. Large stretches of rural America are also a mess, mired in crime, addiction, poverty, despair, and dysfunction. Is that an indictment on rural life and rural lifestyles?

There is no comparison between rural parts of America and what is going on right now in San Francisco. The rural parts of America don't have stores shutting down left and right because of mass larceny, a refusal to prosecute any criminals, human faeces all over sidewalks, and violent maniacs harassing people on forms of transportation.

Instead, I can safely drive into town and safely walk anywhere I want to with no harassment. My car windows don't get smashed. The stores don't have everything behind lock and key.

[Ken]

Yes I read it. San Francisco is kind of a mess right now. But how is that relevant to the subject at hand? We live in a vast country and that is one tiny corner. Due in part because San Francisco tried to turn itself into a theme park rather than a real city. Large stretches of rural America are also a mess, mired in crime, addiction, poverty, despair, and dysfunction. Is that an indictment on rural life and rural lifestyles?

There is no comparison between rural parts of America and what is going on right now in San Francisco. The rural parts of America don't have stores shutting down left and right because of mass larceny, a refusal to prosecute any criminals, human faeces all over sidewalks, and violent maniacs harassing people on forms of transportation.

Instead, I can safely drive into town and safely walk anywhere I want to with no harassment. My car windows don't get smashed. The stores don't have everything behind lock and key.

Actually there are many part of rural America that are exactly like that. For example, here are some profiles of rural Oregon that paint a picture every bit as dysfunctional and crime ridden as you think San Francisco is. And and rural Oregon is far from the worst state when it comes to things like opioid addiction and crime:

Yamhill County: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/opin ... =url-share

Klamath County: https://magazine.atavist.com/outlaw-cou ... ns-murder/

Josephine County: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... nvironment

And, at present, crime is actually rising FASTER in rural America compared to cities: https://www.wsj.com/articles/violent-cr ... 1654864251

The point is, the choice is not simply between say traditional rural Menno areas like Holmes County or Belleville PA, and inner-city San Francisco. Those are two opposite extremes. The country is filled with urban areas and 80% of America lives in communities designated as urban by the census. You have vast choices. You don't want to live in San Francisco, don't live in San Francisco. It is but an extremely tiny fraction of urban America, and extremely unrepresentative.

And yes, living around feces can be a problem in rural America too: https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2300 ... t-industry