Comparison of horse and buggy Anabaptists that are accepting of seekers

[readrevelations1to22]

I'm trying to put together a list of different groups that are low tech and are relatively accepting of seekers, any help or corrections would be appreciated!

1) Scottsville type churches (Noah Hoover Mennonites?)
- Utilize german and english
- Located in KY, MO, and Belize (maybe 1 in Australia too)
- Slightly harder for seekers compared to Delano?
- Strict ordnung
- Lowest tech out of all Anabaptists

2) Delano TN type churches (also subgroup of Noah Hoover Mennonites?)
- More english because used to be Elmo Stoll Christian Community
- 3 communities in TN and 2 in AL
- Highly accepting of seekers, specific help to integrate such as teaching farm skills (1/3rd seeker background in some communities)
- Strict ordnung
- Lowest tech out of all Anabaptists

3) Vernon Community
- formerly from Lobelville so possibly english?
- Vernon KY and a new daughter community in Campbellsville KY
- Unsure on current view of seekers
- No ordnung?
- Very low tech (not even chainsaws allowed so wood is cut by hand)

4) Lobelville Believers in Christ
- English
- Main community in Lobelville, associated communities in other areas but unclear if these are still around
- Accepting of seekers
- No ordnung, focus is on a born again experience
- Mixed tech, apparently use cars sometimes but also horse and buggy

5) German Baptist Brethren in Covington OH
- English
- Ohio, unsure if others
- Accepting of seekers (1/3rd seeker background)
- Ordnung
- Low tech horse and buggy

Could use help with a few questions:

Does anybody know if the community in Holland KY is more like the Scottsville type or the Delano type? I read they're a former Elmo Stoll Christian Community so I assume they speak more english similar to Delano?

How does the Vernon community treat sincere seekers?

Are there any religious doctrine or major belief differences between these groups (given their unique history of being intentional rather than traditional and their association with the "pure church movement")?

What does a seeker have to agree with in order to join, for example does a seeker have to agree with the dordrecht confession or have some of these groups moved towards scripture only?

Any other major differences between these groups?

Any communities that I missed that are also very low tech + accepting of seekers?

[justme]

Ask JohnH. He'll give you answers. He knows everything.

[temporal1]

Ask JohnH. He'll give you answers. He knows everything.

Wasn’t it Ernie and JohnH who were trying to be specially helpful in trying to help new members locate fellowships/churches, esp ones with little or no tech presence, like websites? (Was there another?) Judas M.? My memory is fuzzy.

[JohnH]

Ask JohnH. He'll give you answers. He knows everything.

justme, did I do something to offend you?

[JohnH]

Great question! I can give some information based on my own exposure to these groups, but most of my information comes from my brothers who are in the process of joining a horse and buggy group. Your information aligns closely with theirs.

I'm trying to put together a list of different groups that are low tech and are relatively accepting of seekers, any help or corrections would be appreciated!

1) Scottsville type churches (Noah Hoover Mennonites?)
- Utilize german and english
- Located in KY, MO, and Belize (maybe 1 in Australia too)
- Slightly harder for seekers compared to Delano?
- Strict ordnung
- Lowest tech out of all Anabaptists

These groups are in full fellowship with the Delano churches. They would tend to refer seekers to the Delano churches for a few reasons, but would accept a seeker if they really wanted to join:

- PA Dutch is widely spoken, so that will be tough for a seeker unless they're good at language acquisition or already speak it.
- Church services are in German, although they would be willing to switch to English if a family joined who couldn't understand it.
- These communities don't have a public-facing "farm market" which they have found is very helpful for helping seekers integrate, including helping them struggle less with feelings of isolation from the outside world.
- These communities have more conventional forms of land ownership, so a family that wanted to move in would need to buy land very near the community since they obviously need to be in close proximity to it.

2) Delano TN type churches (also subgroup of Noah Hoover Mennonites?)
- More english because used to be Elmo Stoll Christian Community
- 3 communities in TN and 2 in AL
- Highly accepting of seekers, specific help to integrate such as teaching farm skills (1/3rd seeker background in some communities)
- Strict ordnung
- Lowest tech out of all Anabaptists

Yes, these seem to be specifically structured to integrate seekers, particularly with:

- Economic system structured around produce farming and a farm market
- Community land ownership where land is assigned to a family who moves in
- Semi-communal house ownership where people swap houses as their family sizes / needs change, which makes it much easier for seekers to move in close proximity as opposed to needing to try to buy possibly very expensive land
- The equivalent of a vocational "training program" where a family who moves in immediately has a job/work to do that is capable of sustaining themselves.
- Church services in English.
- The farm market gives lots of contact with the outside world, which can help seekers who struggle with feeling isolated.

My dad's cousin's best friends have lived next door on an adjacent parcel to one of these communities since before it existed, so they have watched the community from day 1. They often take their grandkids there (who would be my 2nd cousin's children). They speak very, very highly of it. The kids greatly enjoy their time there and playing with the other children there. I am very grateful my extended family has gotten to have such a positive experience of exposure to plain Anabaptist Christianity; it's particularly special and meaningful to me.

3) Vernon Community
- formerly from Lobelville so possibly english?
- Vernon KY and a new daughter community in Campbellsville KY
- Unsure on current view of seekers
- No ordnung?
- Very low tech (not even chainsaws allowed so wood is cut by hand)

I am not familiar with them.

4) Lobelville Believers in Christ
- English
- Main community in Lobelville, associated communities in other areas but unclear if these are still around
- Accepting of seekers
- No ordnung, focus is on a born again experience
- Mixed tech, apparently use cars sometimes but also horse and buggy

I had a wonderful experience staying with a family there during an AIC held in the area. I locked my keys in my rental pickup truck, so wasn't able to go to my own denomination's church, and I ended up going with them to their church instead. It was an enjoyable experience.

Lobelville overall is undergoing transition away from horse and buggy to use of cars, so someone seeking a horse and buggy community might not find what they are looking for. My understanding is that the family I stayed with has migrated to a Delano type community.

5) German Baptist Brethren in Covington OH
- English
- Ohio, unsure if others
- Accepting of seekers (1/3rd seeker background)
- Ordnung
- Low tech horse and buggy

I have heard a lot of positive things about this group, but my only contact with them has been waving at their buggies when I stayed at someone's house near the triangular "corner" in Covington. As I understand it, they try to practice some of the original pietistic doctrines of the original Schwarzenau Brethren. This does include a view of "eventual reconciliation" (which some would call "universal salvation"). The reputation they have is quite positive.

Could use help with a few questions:

Does anybody know if the community in Holland KY is more like the Scottsville type or the Delano type? I read they're a former Elmo Stoll Christian Community so I assume they speak more english similar to Delano?

Don't know.

How does the Vernon community treat sincere seekers?

Don't know.

Are there any religious doctrine or major belief differences between these groups (given their unique history of being intentional rather than traditional and their association with the "pure church movement")?

The German Baptist group is going to have German Baptist / Brethren doctrines, although for the typical seeker from other Christian backgrounds, this will probably not be a problem. Most seekers from other backgrounds prefer full immersion, for example.

The Believers in Christ have unique theology.

What does a seeker have to agree with in order to join, for example does a seeker have to agree with the dordrecht confession or have some of these groups moved towards scripture only?

Believers in Christ described to me that to join one simply makes a confession of faith in the Bible and Jesus and is a member a few weeks later. They are notable amongst Anabaptists for this, though.

Any other major differences between these groups?

Any communities that I missed that are also very low tech + accepting of seekers?

I can put you in touch with a few people (my brother would be the best reference point) who could probably answer some of these questions or at least point you in the right direction. He hasn't joined yet/moved down there so he is reachable by telephone, although you could mail him a letter too - they are getting used to sending lots of letters back and forth in the mail to communicate with these various groups, since many of them are not easily reachable by telephone.

You should also add the Unity, Maine and Smyrna, Maine churches to your list along with the "Michigan Amish" churches. They are significantly less "low tech" than any of the groups you listed above, but are still horse and buggy. As I understand it, Unity & Smyrna have English church services and also have a dedicated meeting house instead of meeting in homes like Old Order Amish do. They are in full fellowship with the Old Order Amish and are considered a genuine Old Order Amish church district, though.

There's one more very unusual group that deserves a mention: The Old Order River Brethren have several communities, and one of them elected to stay horse and buggy. They are all in full fellowship with each other. (They are not to be confused with German Baptist Brethren.) They have unique practice such as everyone shares a testimony every Sunday. They are generally highly regarded and have a high number of seekers, along with the usual challenges that go along with that. (Something to consider as a seeker is that a place with a higher proportion of seekers is going to have lots of people with the same problems you have...)

[HansMacDonald]

Another group to consider are the Old Brethren German Baptists from Camden, Indiana and Trenton, MO. They are the most conservative German Baptist group in existence. No tractors, no electricity, and no phones. They are of course English speaking.

[JohnH]

Another group to consider are the Old Brethren German Baptists from Camden, Indiana and Trenton, MO. They are the most conservative German Baptist group in existence. No tractors, no electricity, and no phones. They are of course English speaking.

Are they different from the Covington group? I didn't know there were 2 German Baptist horse-and-buggy groups.

I should mention there is a group in Australia that is horse and buggy - sort of. It is a single family, Greg McCallum's, who live in Scottsdale, Tasmania. You can read about them here: https://www.smh.com.au/national/meet-th ... 509xn.html

Greg is known to move buildings: https://northeasternadvertiser.com/feat ... s-new-life

Oddly enough, his wife, Bethany, is from a family my parents/family was quite close to for many years, although neither of us were remotely Anabaptist back then. Her brother taught me how to play Sierra's Hero's Quest when I was 11, for a bit of context...

[HansMacDonald]

Another group to consider are the Old Brethren German Baptists from Camden, Indiana and Trenton, MO. They are the most conservative German Baptist group in existence. No tractors, no electricity, and no phones. They are of course English speaking.

Are they different from the Covington group? I didn't know there were 2 German Baptist horse-and-buggy groups.

I should mention there is a group in Australia that is horse and buggy - sort of. It is a single family, Greg McCallum's, who live in Scottsdale, Tasmania. You can read about them here: https://www.smh.com.au/national/meet-th ... 509xn.html

Greg is known to move buildings: https://northeasternadvertiser.com/feat ... s-new-life

Oddly enough, his wife, Bethany, is from a family my parents/family was quite close to for many years, although neither of us were remotely Anabaptist back then. Her brother taught me how to play Sierra's Hero's Quest when I was 11, for a bit of context...

Yes, they are a different group. One of their members used to write in the Budget from Camden, IN years ago, maybe still does. He was married to a seeker who joined their church. I remember their bishop was killed in a car and buggy accident around 2009 or 2010.

[JayP]

Gee JihnH. If it’s not just me, maybe you need to reconsider, huh?

[HansMacDonald]

Another group to consider are the Old Brethren German Baptists from Camden, Indiana and Trenton, MO. They are the most conservative German Baptist group in existence. No tractors, no electricity, and no phones. They are of course English speaking.

Are they different from the Covington group? I didn't know there were 2 German Baptist horse-and-buggy groups.

I should mention there is a group in Australia that is horse and buggy - sort of. It is a single family, Greg McCallum's, who live in Scottsdale, Tasmania. You can read about them here: https://www.smh.com.au/national/meet-th ... 509xn.html

Greg is known to move buildings: https://northeasternadvertiser.com/feat ... s-new-life

Oddly enough, his wife, Bethany, is from a family my parents/family was quite close to for many years, although neither of us were remotely Anabaptist back then. Her brother taught me how to play Sierra's Hero's Quest when I was 11, for a bit of context...

Interesting articles on the McCallum family. Thanks for posting the articles..