"We" and "Our" as it relates to civil government and the military

[Ernie]

Among many non-resistant groups, you will not hear things like this...

"And let's face it, we seem to have a list of countries to try "regime change" in, without any definition of what that means or how we will know when we have accomplished it. Currently, we have the following unfinished projects...

When are we going to start building something instead of just tearing things down?

What have we done in Venezuela beyond grabbing their oil?"

One reason is that some non-resistant people cannot honestly talk this way. They have no heart attachment to the government they live under, and it would feel dishonest to identify with something that they have no identification with. This is especially true as it relates to military exploits.

Some non-resistant people cannot conscientiously talk this way. Even if they would like to talk this way, they cannot, because doing so would align them with a system that Jesus forbids his followers from being part of.

And then there are many who haven't thought much about this, but do not talk this way because they are taught not to talk this way.

Within non-resistant groups there are those who vote in civil elections and those who would like to vote but their church does not allow it. Among these folks it is common to hear them talking about "we" and "our" as it relates to their country's military endeavors.
They may not think about it very deeply, but I think it is very intuitive for them and it is a very natural outflow from a person who wants to participate in choosing civil government leaders and participate in governmental systems. I think these folks are being honest. And even if I cannot support them in this, at least they are not being duplicitous.

[Ernie]

As I think about this, I wonder if this isn't a significant piece that is often missed in the debate about whether or not Christians should vote in civil politics.
Maybe instead of limiting ourselves to arguments from scripture on whether Christians should vote or not, perhaps we should look at how participation in voting affects a person's worldview, their sense of identity, their felt reality, etc. and make a backwards argument.

[ohio jones]

We recently had a non-Mennonite speaker who made a few references to "our country." It stood out because I'm not used to hearing that phrase from the pulpit, and only occasionally in conversation (and then only from a few people). I think it's better to have a Hebrews 11 mindset so that "our country" refers to something greater and more enduring than the nations of this world.

[Neto]

There is a song that our music people like to sing. It talks about 'winning this nation back'. Some others are also bothered by this, but the fact that it seems to be accepted by many to sing this, is, I think, a bad sign.

[Soloist]

I would like to point out your system doesn’t overly work for seekers. I have to make a conscious effort not to use “us” “we” and the like even though I don’t identify with “our” country. That was actually a perfect example… the “our” was accidental.

[Soloist]

Wife: Relating to the OP question, I think sometimes it comes off annoying when people constantly are correcting others (mostly of non-Mennonite background) about using words like ‘our’. It reminds me a lot of people who freak out because somebody uses the word kids instead of children, or how somebody immediately corrected us when we used the word pacifist when we first went to a conservative Mennonite church, although that sort of makes more sense.

Often, there are no extra connotations meant by the term ‘our’ or ‘us,’ at least not by those who weren’t raised knowing the nuances. It’s just an easy phrase, because we happen to live and possibly be citizens of the United States. It might make sense to tell people of the assumptions that will be made if they use that phrase, but just like I don’t think the majority of children’s/kids’ futures are directed by which word you use (maybe different if you come from Anabaptist background), I don’t think you can automatically judge the mindset someone comes from if they happen to use the phrase ‘our’ or ‘us’ when relating to United States events.

Edit: just saw my husband’s post. Still think this is relevant.
also went back to edit it the second time because I realized that I misunderstood somebody else’s post.

[ken_sylvania]

There is a song that our music people like to sing. It talks about 'winning this nation back'. Some others are also bothered by this, but the fact that it seems to be accepted by many to sing this, is, I think, a bad sign.

Wife: your music people?

Relating to the OP question, I think sometimes it comes off annoying when people constantly are correcting others (mostly of non-Mennonite background) about using words like ‘our’. It reminds me a lot of people who freak out because somebody uses the word kids instead of children, or how somebody immediately corrected us when we used the word pacifist when we first went to a conservative Mennonite church, although that sort of makes more sense.

Often, there are no extra connotations meant by the term ‘our’ or ‘us,’ at least not by those who weren’t raised knowing the nuances. It’s just an easy phrase, because we happen to live and possibly be citizens of the United States. It might make sense to tell people of the assumptions that will be made if they use that phrase, but just like I don’t think the majority of children’s/kids’ futures are directed by which word you use (maybe different if you come from Anabaptist background), I don’t think you can automatically judge the mindset someone comes from if they happen to use the phrase ‘our’ or ‘us’ when relating to United States events.

Edit: just saw my husband’s post. Still think this is relevant

Excellent point. Thanks for the reminder.

[Wesleyb]

As I think about this, I wonder if this isn't a significant piece that is often missed in the debate about whether or not Christians should vote in civil politics.
Maybe instead of limiting ourselves to arguments from scripture on whether Christians should vote or not, perhaps we should look at how participation in voting affects a person's worldview, their sense of identity, their felt reality, etc. and make a backwards argument.

Yes, Ernie I believe this is the best argument against voting. Practically speaking there is no chance my one little vote will ever start a war or stop a war, balance or unbalance the budget, or increase or decrease global warming or anything else, but it does have a good chance of doing the things you mention. I do vote, quietly and a bit hesitantly, but I think about these things pretty often and if I ever stop it will be for those reasons.

I came home the other week and my boys excitedly told me that "we are bombing Iran" and I told them no, "WE" are not doing it. I understand that not everyone that uses that language means it literally, but I choose to avoid it.

[JohnH]

I would say that "we" are part of our host country, whether we want to be or not. It would be a very silly thing if I started claiming not to be Australian or American. I obviously am both such things, or at the very least, at least one of them.

Dual citizenship, indeed, does provide a framework for discussing what "we" and "our" means. If I say, "We should be careful before getting entangled in foreign wars", am I referring to Australia, America, or both? How about "I think we should apply tariffs to high levels of imports"? Obviously, I'm not actually applying them, and the two domains could even be in conflict with one another.

[Soloist]

I would say that "we" are part of our host country, whether we want to be or not. It would be a very silly thing if I started claiming not to be Australian or American. I obviously am both such things, or at the very least, at least one of them.

Dual citizenship, indeed, does provide a framework for discussing what "we" and "our" means. If I say, "We should be careful before getting entangled in foreign wars", am I referring to Australia, America, or both? How about "I think we should apply tariffs to high levels of imports"? Obviously, I'm not actually applying them, and the two domains could even be in conflict with one another.

Wife: I actually was thinking about that. No matter how long our relative lives in Australia, even if she revoked her citizenship, she’s always going to be known as an American. we say our town, our neighborhood, etc. Daniel took on the collective sin of his people, and yeah, that was a theocracy, but sometimes, it can just be as simple as that.