The next MC USA movement: promoting abortion

[Josh]

Much as the liberal-progressive wing eventually violated its covenants and also violated the Bible’s teachings with regard to marriage and chastity, they now push to promote murdering babies:

Julie Allyn, a member of Hyde Park Mennonite Fellowship in Boise, Idaho, recently attended the annual conference of the Spiritual Alliance of Communities for Reproductive Dignity. SACReD is a multifaith organization seeking to create a world where “reproductive justice is a lived reality.” They “affirm bodily autonomy and moral agency, celebrate healthy sexuality and advocate for reproductive dignity to support the flourishing of all people and families.”

In a sermon after she returned, Julie said, “We too are called to speak up and speak out for dignity and compassion in Jesus’ name. Especially when there are those who would speak shame and insults in his name. If we want to follow Jesus’ example, that means being provocative, and being loud about it. And what could be more provocative than a group of Mennonites advocating for abortion access in Idaho?”

Julie said progressive churches need to center themselves in the fight for reproductive justice. Conservative churches and politicians have made abortion their central issue. We have a duty to make the dissenting voice of Jesus’ compassion just as loud and to make it known that an alternative faith-based perspective on the issue exists.

Communities of faith that recognize the theological basis of bodily autonomy as a human right are invited to explore partnership with SACReD as a means of supporting abortion access in ministry.

Ms Allyn, who works for a guy who tries to keep drunk drivers from getting in trouble, also recently ran for office in Boise. This is rather appropriately intersectional for a variety of topics on MennoNet lately.

Ms Allyn regularly preaches at her church. Does the Bible support this?



She recently preached a sermon promoting abortion and why magic is OK, using the typical Hegelian dialectic of phrasing Jesus as always siding with the “oppressed”, and this, claiming that Jesus would side with those who practice magic and are “oppressed” under ancient Judaism, and likewise with those seeking abortions today where it is illegal. (I recommend all of you with access to YouTube listen to her sermon.)

More disturbingly, should abortion be preached as “sacred” and something positive from the pulpit?

Should political activism be treated from the pulpit? Should supposed Mennonites run for political office? Should they vote for pro-abortion politicians?

We see the ungodly fruit of decades of progressivism on display here - and sadly, the end is that embracing murder means the forfeiture of salvation, a precious but free gift from Jesus:

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

…

Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder … Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

May we pray for each of these precious souls, has fallen into the enemy’s trap repent and one day be safe in Jesus arms - before it is too late and they are lost for eternity.

[JayP]

The real question is our liberal mainstream Mennonites actually believers at all? I suppose it’s a difficult question in that we are not to run around and judge all these groups and people per se. Just because you do not hold to this belief or that one, epwhat makes me confident that I am right?

On the other hand, mainline Protestantism, except for the peace element, is exactly what most Mennonites are now. And their rationalization of all sorts of behavior, from abortion to LGBTQ squared to transgender results in fruits that are clearly not pleasing to God.

I mean this in a more practical sense….these people are not Christians at all. The really sad part….they are confident they are being “nice” and supporting of the downtrodden. Just sad. Not all evil bangs swords against shields.

[Pelerin]

Ah, but of course. The image I used to have of MCUSA liberals was of people who weren’t afraid to stand on their convictions even when it made them “weird” to the people they otherwise aligned with and in that way they were respectably Anabaptist. Even if I didn’t agree with where they came out it was refreshing at a time when evangelical and even conservative Anabaptists seemed to be embracing the Glen Beck/Rush Limbaugh worldview wholesale. Now it seems like liberal Mennonites are just coming off the factory line—Standard Liberal: Faith Edition. Maybe I just knew the hippie types.

I had some thoughts for the Turtles thread that I couldn’t quite distill in the end but one thing from the message that had resonated with me in that message was the looking at where different paths ended up leading to. I can see that path you took ended up taking you There and know I want to avoid taking that way myself.

[Bootstrap]

The kind of thing Josh points to is really bad. Note that this is a story about an individual.

It's not the MC-USA position on abortion, which you can see here:

https://anabaptistwiki.org/mediawiki/in ... each_other.

II. We believe

1. Human life is a gift from God to be valued and protected. We oppose abortion because it runs counter to biblical principles.
2. The fetus in its earliest stages (and even if imperfect by human standards) shares humanity with those who conceived it.
3. There are times when deeply held values, such as saving the life of the mother and saving the life of the fetus, come in conflict with each other.
4. The faith community should be a place for discernment about difficult issues like abortion.
5. Abortion should not be used to interrupt unwanted pregnancies.
6. Christians must provide viable alternatives to abortion that provide care and support for mothers and infants.
7. The church should witness to society regarding the value of all human life.
8. Professionals whose ministry involves dealing with the moral dilemmas of abortion and reproductive technologies need our support.

I am in the Virginia Mennonite Conference, in one of the churches Josh mentions that is on the conservative side. I do see a LOTS more young liberal Mennonites who basically do not believe the official teaching of our church, and some of those people are coming out of the seminaries.

But so far, I have seen no move that is likely to change our stance on abortion. Let's pray that doesn't happen.

[Judas Maccabeus]

The kind of thing Josh points to is really bad. Note that this is a story about an individual.

It's not the MC-USA position on abortion, which you can see here:

https://anabaptistwiki.org/mediawiki/in ... each_other.

II. We believe

1. Human life is a gift from God to be valued and protected. We oppose abortion because it runs counter to biblical principles.
2. The fetus in its earliest stages (and even if imperfect by human standards) shares humanity with those who conceived it.
3. There are times when deeply held values, such as saving the life of the mother and saving the life of the fetus, come in conflict with each other.
4. The faith community should be a place for discernment about difficult issues like abortion.
5. Abortion should not be used to interrupt unwanted pregnancies.
6. Christians must provide viable alternatives to abortion that provide care and support for mothers and infants.
7. The church should witness to society regarding the value of all human life.
8. Professionals whose ministry involves dealing with the moral dilemmas of abortion and reproductive technologies need our support.

I am in the Virginia Mennonite Conference, in one of the churches Josh mentions that is on the conservative side. I do see a LOTS more young liberal Mennonites who basically do not believe the official teaching of our church, and some of those people are coming out of the seminaries.

But so far, I have seen no move that is likely to change our stance on abortion. Let's pray that doesn't happen.

If you are talking about the 2003 statement on Abortion, I would call it masterfully done, as it gives guidance that moves our theology from abstract principles to the real world. It also admits that we have left couples and healthcare providers "on their own" during ethical/medical crisis. This should not be, but happens all too often.

That being said, I seriously doubt that if this paper was presented to today's MCUSA, it would pass. My thought is that it would be laughed off the floor. It is solidly pro-life, and does not present abortion as an alternative except in the most extreme cases.

You know, a conference like Mountain Valley would likely welcome you all. I suspect that MCUSA is going to get more and hostile.

[Bootstrap]

You know, a conference like Mountain Valley would likely welcome you all. I suspect that MCUSA is going to get more and hostile.

I have no idea how things will reshuffle in the coming years.

Right now, we are more focused on our own local church than on anything at the conference level or above. But there are a lot of churches like ours in Virginia Mennonite Conference. I don't know what that looks like nationally.

[cooper]

I kind of wish Lancaster Conference would have stayed. Had they stayed, the vote on LGBT inclusion would have gone differently. Had they stayed, I think over time the denomination would have grown more conservative. (Based on the assumption progressive churches are more likely to close than orthodox churches.) On the other hand, Lancaster has saved themselves a lot of grief by leaving in 2016. Denominational infighting is very costly in terms of distracting from doing the work of the church.

[Judas Maccabeus]

I kind of wish Lancaster Conference would have stayed. Had they stayed, the vote on LGBT inclusion would have gone differently. Had they stayed, I think over time the denomination would have grown more conservative. (Based on the assumption progressive churches are more likely to close than orthodox churches.) On the other hand, Lancaster has saved themselves a lot of grief by leaving in 2016. Denominational infighting is very costly in terms of distracting from doing the work of the church.

The reverse, of course, could have occurred, and was, in fact, already occurring. At current rate of decline, MCUSA will likely effectively cease to exist within the lifespan of people in leadership now.

[Josh]

I kind of wish Lancaster Conference would have stayed. Had they stayed, the vote on LGBT inclusion would have gone differently. Had they stayed, I think over time the denomination would have grown more conservative. (Based on the assumption progressive churches are more likely to close than orthodox churches.) On the other hand, Lancaster has saved themselves a lot of grief by leaving in 2016. Denominational infighting is very costly in terms of distracting from doing the work of the church.

The reverse, of course, could have occurred, and was, in fact, already occurring. At current rate of decline, MCUSA will likely effectively cease to exist within the lifespan of people in leadership now.

Speaking of which, another area conference just voted to depart. They’re caucusing with Lancaster now and will form a new district with them. Lancaster is on track to be bigger than MC USA and MC Canada combined, if present trends continue.

Lancaster is also caucusing with Evana, forming an even larger network when it comes to resources shared on things like mission activity, domestic and urban outreach, and so on.

What I hear from some Lancaster folks is they are glad to not be bothering with denominational infighting anymore and instead can focus energy on the things they care about. And they aren’t really missing out on anything by not being part of MC USA anymore.

[Bootstrap]

I think our congregation is basically keeping our eyes open, waiting for a lot of dust to settle. We will evaluate our choices then.