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Probably a lot of people are not aware of MAP Ministry- but here is the story of the one who founded it- I consider Joe a friend- I appreciate his heart for God, love for his people, even if we don't agree about everything-

Valerie wrote:Probably a lot of people are not aware of MAP Ministry- but here is the story of the one who founded it- I consider Joe a friend- I appreciate his heart for God, love for his people, even if we don't agree about everything-

I tend to be unenthusiastic about people and organisations trying to convert Anabaptists into Baptists and get them to throw away their veils and pick up guns.

Josh wrote:

Valerie wrote:Probably a lot of people are not aware of MAP Ministry- but here is the story of the one who founded it- I consider Joe a friend- I appreciate his heart for God, love for his people, even if we don't agree about everything-

I tend to be unenthusiastic about people and organisations trying to convert Anabaptists into Baptists and get them to throw away their veils and pick up guns.

I don't think MAP encourages former Amish to pick up guns, have never read any such thing. I do know they have helped formers become Missionaries and live for Christ. The veil thing- well- I think NOW they may see it differently, I do not know. I sent Joe a book about the headcovering- but I believe since he seems to feel God has been working in and through the ministry that perhaps the headcovering (or lack of) didn't seem to hinder their mission- the fact is many young people that leave Amish still need Christ- and their mission is also to help those come to Christ and not live wildly in the world, which many formers will do that leave when young.

Question because you leave me wondering- there are Mennonites who no longer cover (veil) or wear a small doily (more or less a 'symbol' I guess)- would you consider these Anabaptists? I remember talking to my former pastor, when I first started covering- since he visits Amish Country (Holmes) I think it throws/threw him about it seeing doilies for coverings and such a mixture- for a Pentecost pastor he found little significance in it making a difference- more perplexing than anything else. What say you about Anabaptists that have also discarded covering Josh? Do you consider them fallen away?

I don't think MAP encourages former Amish to pick up guns, have never read any such thing.

If their Baptist churches are anything like ours, then they'll basically tell you to pick up guns (along with who to vote for! )

KingdomBuilder wrote:

I don't think MAP encourages former Amish to pick up guns, have never read any such thing.

If their Baptist churches are anything like ours, then they'll basically tell you to pick up guns (along with who to vote for! )

I honestly couldn't say. We have visited the Church only 3 times. We met a former Mennonite couple who said they loved the pastor. The wife still wore her Mennonite transparent cap, so she didnt drop that. We went mainly to hear a young man, former amish, who was baptizedthere & leaving for China as he became a missionary to China.If he would have remained Amish that wouldn't be allowed. I'm guessing to say that because they have baptized so many former Amish that this particular Baptist church wouldn't be heavy leaning on encouraging arms- Baptists are not quite as diversified as Anabaptists i dont think but there are a variety for sure

KingdomBuilder wrote:

I don't think MAP encourages former Amish to pick up guns, have never read any such thing.

If their Baptist churches are anything like ours, then they'll basically tell you to pick up guns (along with who to vote for! )

I know right! When I moved to the south there were more Baptist churches than anything else and this was common. It turned me off and actually pushed me towards the Anabaptists. Though I still hear politics discussed with incorrect information about candidates. Many times they are repeating what they heard from a Baptist lol.

Valerie wrote:Question because you leave me wondering- there are Mennonites who no longer cover (veil) or wear a small doily (more or less a 'symbol' I guess)- would you consider these Anabaptists?

The question is not if you are "Anabaptist", but if you are following the Bible. I think the Bible teaches the veiling. I think disobeying Jesus's teachings on nonresistance and Paul's teachings on the Bible is the start of a path to apostasy.

I remember talking to my former pastor, when I first started covering- since he visits Amish Country (Holmes) I think it throws/threw him about it seeing doilies for coverings and such a mixture- for a Pentecost pastor he found little significance in it making a difference- more perplexing than anything else. What say you about Anabaptists that have also discarded covering Josh? Do you consider them fallen away?

In my experience, discarding the veiling is part of the process of either becoming liberal and eventually embracing gay marriage, or becoming God-and-country "conservative" and thinking it's a good idea to vote for Donald Trump.

I think both paths are paths to apostasy.

Valerie wrote:

Josh wrote:

Valerie wrote:Probably a lot of people are not aware of MAP Ministry- but here is the story of the one who founded it- I consider Joe a friend- I appreciate his heart for God, love for his people, even if we don't agree about everything-

I tend to be unenthusiastic about people and organisations trying to convert Anabaptists into Baptists and get them to throw away their veils and pick up guns.

I don't think MAP encourages former Amish to pick up guns, have never read any such thing. I do know they have helped formers become Missionaries and live for Christ. The veil thing- well- I think NOW they may see it differently, I do not know. I sent Joe a book about the headcovering- but I believe since he seems to feel God has been working in and through the ministry that perhaps the headcovering (or lack of) didn't seem to hinder their mission- the fact is many young people that leave Amish still need Christ- and their mission is also to help those come to Christ and not live wildly in the world, which many formers will do that leave when young.

Question because you leave me wondering- there are Mennonites who no longer cover (veil) or wear a small doily (more or less a 'symbol' I guess)- would you consider these Anabaptists? I remember talking to my former pastor, when I first started covering- since he visits Amish Country (Holmes) I think it throws/threw him about it seeing doilies for coverings and such a mixture- for a Pentecost pastor he found little significance in it making a difference- more perplexing than anything else. What say you about Anabaptists that have also discarded covering Josh? Do you consider them fallen away?

I don't know what Josh thinks, but George Brunk hit the nail on the head and drove it halfway through the wood!



J.M.

Josh wrote:

Valerie wrote:Question because you leave me wondering- there are Mennonites who no longer cover (veil) or wear a small doily (more or less a 'symbol' I guess)- would you consider these Anabaptists?

The question is not if you are "Anabaptist", but if you are following the Bible. I think the Bible teaches the veiling. I think disobeying Jesus's teachings on nonresistance and Paul's teachings on the Bible is the start of a path to apostasy.

I remember talking to my former pastor, when I first started covering- since he visits Amish Country (Holmes) I think it throws/threw him about it seeing doilies for coverings and such a mixture- for a Pentecost pastor he found little significance in it making a difference- more perplexing than anything else. What say you about Anabaptists that have also discarded covering Josh? Do you consider them fallen away?

In my experience, discarding the veiling is part of the process of either becoming liberal and eventually embracing gay marriage, or becoming God-and-country "conservative" and thinking it's a good idea to vote for Donald Trump.

I think both paths are paths to apostasy.

I would be inclined to consider it a symptom. Maybe there's little or no difference.

silentreader wrote:

Josh wrote:

Valerie wrote:Question because you leave me wondering- there are Mennonites who no longer cover (veil) or wear a small doily (more or less a 'symbol' I guess)- would you consider these Anabaptists?

The question is not if you are "Anabaptist", but if you are following the Bible. I think the Bible teaches the veiling. I think disobeying Jesus's teachings on nonresistance and Paul's teachings on the Bible is the start of a path to apostasy.

I remember talking to my former pastor, when I first started covering- since he visits Amish Country (Holmes) I think it throws/threw him about it seeing doilies for coverings and such a mixture- for a Pentecost pastor he found little significance in it making a difference- more perplexing than anything else. What say you about Anabaptists that have also discarded covering Josh? Do you consider them fallen away?

In my experience, discarding the veiling is part of the process of either becoming liberal and eventually embracing gay marriage, or becoming God-and-country "conservative" and thinking it's a good idea to vote for Donald Trump.

I think both paths are paths to apostasy.

I would be inclined to consider it a symptom. Maybe there's little or no difference.

I think you are EXACTLY right. As soon as you begin to apply a hermeneutic that lets you understand passages in ways that the author could never conceived of. You understand the head covering passages in 1 Cor 11 using "culture" to drive your understanding, and dismiss head covering as a first century cultural requirement, and before you know it, you will be dismissing Romans 1:26+27 the same way. Once you start doing this, there is truly no stopping point. You can make the Bible completely irrelevant.

Similarly you can do similar things with Matthew 5:38-44 and you will wind up with just war, and cheers when a church member swears an oath (Matt 5:34 notwithstanding) to kill the enemies of the state.

It is a process, but the process begins long before any head covers are discarded. It begins when a church begins try to make the Bible conform to the expectations of the dominant culture, rather than working to make the church conform to the Bible and not the dominant culture (Romans 12:1+2). As soon as we seek to join routine middle class america rather than calling men and women to escape its eternal damnation, and flee to Jesus, we are done.

I pray that we are never done. So many are.

J.M.