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Pelerin wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 12:15 pm

Ernie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 7:53 am

Pelerin wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 12:35 amExplain more what you mean by “transitional” if you would.

Over the decades, they begin thinking things or doing things that they didn't used to think or do.

In that sense then, almost all churches are transitional. The world changes and new challenges come up that earlier generations didn’t have to think about. Many churches review their standards from time to time: For example, does our standard on clothes still best reflect our views on modesty? Even if the answer is, “yes, here in 2022, it does,” that reflection and renewal is still a transition in thinking. I’d bet if you could interview someone who wrote the standards in 1922, what they say and their reasons for them would sound different than someone in 2022*. But inevitably sometimes the answer will be no, it doesn’t.

Even the church that plants it’s flag in the ground and says, “we will not be moved from here,” has transitioned. “We’re not moving,” is a different way of thinking than what brought them to “here” in the first place.

*As an aside, maybe it would be a good practice for churches to occasionally collect members’ thoughts on how they view the standards (and other things) and archive them. It could help later generations classify their own thinking and might even recover some good thoughts that would otherwise be lost.

Pelerin wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 12:31 pm

Ernie wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 10:06 pmAs I said earlier, churches that are counter-culture don't always have generation gap. I remember as a youth that onlookers marveled how that our conference did not have a generation gap. (There were a few slight changes but very little. If anything the conference keeps inching toward a more conservative position on many practical issues.

And maybe to follow up: how does your conference include the youth in these discussions? If there’s a slight trend to more conservative application embraced by the youth, that would say to me that young people are actively thinking about how to apply the church’s principles in a slightly different context than their parents’ context. And I’d guess the way they describe the application and the reasons for it would be different than their parents would have at the same age.

Pelerin wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 12:31 pm

Ernie wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 10:06 pmAs I said earlier, churches that are counter-culture don't always have generation gap. I remember as a youth that onlookers marveled how that our conference did not have a generation gap. (There were a few slight changes but very little. If anything the conference keeps inching toward a more conservative position on many practical issues.

And maybe to follow up: how does your conference include the youth in these discussions? If there’s a slight trend to more conservative application embraced by the youth, that would say to me that young people are actively thinking about how to apply the church’s principles in a slightly different context than their parents’ context. And I’d guess the way they describe the application and the reasons for it would be different than their parents would have at the same age.

Ernie wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 2:22 pm

Pelerin wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 12:31 pm

Ernie wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 10:06 pmAs I said earlier, churches that are counter-culture don't always have generation gap. I remember as a youth that onlookers marveled how that our conference did not have a generation gap. (There were a few slight changes but very little. If anything the conference keeps inching toward a more conservative position on many practical issues.

And maybe to follow up: how does your conference include the youth in these discussions? If there’s a slight trend to more conservative application embraced by the youth, that would say to me that young people are actively thinking about how to apply the church’s principles in a slightly different context than their parents’ context. And I’d guess the way they describe the application and the reasons for it would be different than their parents would have at the same age.

In the Washington/Franklin Conference and in the Weaverland Conference, there have been efforts (the last 25 years by some church leaders) to take more defined stances on particular beliefs and practices, and to expect greater uniformity across the conference. This does not necessarily reflect the persuasions of the youth or even the majority in the church. Youth do not help choose the leaders other than by praying for the Lord's will do be shown through the nominations and use of the lot.
A leader who received 15% or less of the vote, may be chosen by lot. Those chosen by lot are typically ordained for life, which results in these individuals having a lot of influence.

Even the church that plants it’s flag in the ground and says, “we will not be moved from here,” has transitioned. “We’re not moving,” is a different way of thinking than what brought them to “here” in the first place.

barnhart wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 8:36 pm

Even the church that plants it’s flag in the ground and says, “we will not be moved from here,” has transitioned. “We’re not moving,” is a different way of thinking than what brought them to “here” in the first place.

This is a keen observation that deserves consideration. To be faithful is not the same thing as stasis.

Ernie wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:33 pm Yes, as Jonas Sauder points out, the Old Order movement was a new thing. For the first time in Anabaptist history, Mennonites and Amish didn't just try to live simply and avoid being on the cutting edge, but they decided to ban certain kinds of practical technology. (However this was not the first time that Mennonites and Amish tried to keep the older forms of worship and church polity.)

In light of this, since Eastern and Washington/Franklin and Nationwide Fellowship, etc. are now banning certain types of technology as well, this makes them the "New Old Orders", IMO.