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Hans Groff and Groffdale

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:34 am
by temporal1
Groffdale Conference Mennonite Church
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groffdale ... ite_Church
.. History
The Groffdale Conference Mennonites have their roots in the Anabaptist movement of Switzerland and Southwest Germany, including the German-speaking Alsace, that came under French rule starting in the 17th century.

In the first two centuries or so this movement was known by the name Swiss Brethren but later adopted the name Mennonite.

i admit some confusion here, mostly about common roots in Switzerland, Amish and Groffdales.

https://www.geni.com/people/Hans-Graff/ ... 2315341430

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/11282437/hans-graf

Re: Joseph J. Graber video: The Amish and The Reformation

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:01 pm
by Ken
Most of the early Mennonite and Amish immigrants to PA and OH were German-speaking peoples from that part of northern Switzerland, southern Germany, and Northwest France. And there was some bouncing around and internal migration in Europe due to the 30-years War and other subsequent wars. So Mennos from Alsace might have first settled in the Palatinate before eventually migrating to North America. The borders of those states were all different at that time and constantly changing. Germany as a modern nation did not really emerge until 1871.

Also, most of the different conservative Anabaptist groups like the Groffdale did not immigrate from Germany in the 18th Century as Groffdales. Those groups formed or split off centuries later in North America. For example, the Groffdales split off from other old order groups and formed their own conference in 1927 in a dispute over the use of cars. So most of the conservative Anabaptist groups in PA and OH all share common immigrant roots and ancestry and the tapestry of different conferences and groupings and schisms all happened much later within North America in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

As far as I know, the only real meaningful split that happened in western Europe was between the Amish and Mennonites, who both immigrated to the US as separate distinct groups. All the other subdivisions have emerged more recently in North America. But I'm sure others with better grasp of Anabaptist history can chime in.

The Russian Mennonites who immigrated from Western Europe to Ukraine and Russia and then eventually to the North and South America are, of course, a different story.

Re: Joseph J. Graber video: The Amish and The Reformation

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:18 pm
by temporal1
temporal1 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:42 am From “Video: A Lamp in the Dark” Page 2. / General Theology
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3138&start=10
temporal1 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:23 am Joseph J. Graber
Doug Grandon
Paul Veraguth

2017 / The Amish and The Reformation / 54 minutes


i expect some here may have viewed this video, and/or may know the three men who created it.

i viewed this video again.
Wondered if there might be comments if it were in a separate thread?

Does anyone know Joseph J. Graber?
Is the video content accurate?

i enjoyed his presentation. i’m not sure of accuracy. i was surprised at various references to Martin Luther.

To clarify, my interest in Groffdales in this thread is how they relate, or not, to the OP video on the Amish (and The Reformation).
As i viewed the video, i was looking for mention of 1600’s Hans Graf, Switzerland, there was none in the OP video.

(If i understand, today there are OO Groffdales, and MCUSA Groffdales.) That’s not the topic here.

i realize not everyone will view the OP video. No problem.

Re: Joseph J. Graber video: The Amish and The Reformation

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:05 pm
by Ken
temporal1 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:18 pmTo clarify, my interest in Groffdales in this thread is how they relate, or not, to the OP video on the Amish (and The Reformation).
As i viewed the video, i was looking for mention of 1600’s Hans Graf, Switzerland, there was none in the OP video.

(If i understand, today there are OO Groffdales, and MCUSA Groffdales.) That’s not the topic here.

i realize not everyone will view the OP video. No problem.
I watched part of it.

I think your confusion might be due to the fact that Groffdale is a place in Lancaster County that became the name for both the Groffdale Conference of Old Order Mennonites who formed there, and other more mainstream Mennonite churches that simply use the name Groffdale because that is where they are located. The name comes from the Hans Graf who founded the town based on a land grant from William Penn. But the different church groups using that name came 150+ years later.

So here is the mainstream Groffdale Mennonite Church located in Groffdale http://www.groffdale.com/ It is an ordinary mainstream Mennonite church and not "plain", you can see the drumset in the background on the web site, and people dressed modern. But it is not MCUSA. It is part of the Lancaster Conference which split off from MCUSA.

And here is the original old order Groffdale Mennonite church two blocks away: https://goo.gl/maps/1z2piP4vym6SrJM3A which I think is now a Weaverland Conference church (not Groffdale Conference) based on the 1927 split. At least according to google. Someone from the area could clarify.

The Mennonite church went through a series of big splits in the later half of the 18th century which formed the Old Order churches that remained ultra-conservative and the more mainstream Mennonite churches that became more modern.

The ultra conservative Old Order branch has subsequently split into at least a half a dozen different groupings since then. The Groffdales split with the Weaverland old order groups over the use of cars. And then other groups have since split off of the Groffdales over other issues.

Meanwhile the more mainstream branch of the church has also split into various groups (MCUSA, CMC, Lancaster Conference, etc.) and MCUSA itself was formed by the union of the mainstream Swiss/German origin Mennonite Church and the Russian-origin General Conference Mennonite Church, so the two most liberal branches united to form MCUSA about 2 decades ago, from which more conservative groups have subsequently split.

2026 Re: Hans Groff and Groffdale

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2026 11:40 am
by temporal1
2026 / Time flies! :shock: :-|

steve’s new topic:

Amish .. “Amish- Not original with me- but still interesting!”
https://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php?t=8858

Hans Groff left Switzerland for Pennsylvania in the 1600’s.
i think i’m getting mixed up distinguishing Amish from OO Mennonite.

Re: Hans Groff and Groffdale

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2026 11:49 am
by temporal1
P.15 / omnium-
temporal1 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 2:14 pm Evidently, unwanted in the other thread: https://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php?t=5643
temporal1 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 11:29 am OP P.1:
Z_DC wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 4:26 pm I'm just curious about the court case on religious freedom being heard by the Supreme Court this coming Tuesday.
The issue is regarding a postal worker in southern Lancaster County, Gerald Groff, who refused to work on Sundays.

The link below indicates he was a former Mennonite missionary. Does anyone know if he is still a Mennonite?

https://www.hcamag.com/us/specializatio ... ion/442806
Ancestry? Groffdales?

Findagrave / Hans Graf 1661-1746
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/11282437/hans-graf
~OUR FAMILIES ANCESTRAL ROOTS~
Hans was said to have been married twice, first was to Ursula Neukomm about 1683, and believed to have had one child through the marriage. Then later re-married to Susanna Orndorf about 1700 and had what was believed to have been ten children along with her.

West Earl Township Lancaster, Pennsylvania - He was the first settler in 1717, named in his honor 1729 "Earl being the English of Graf."

A stone was finally placed at his grave site, but his grave was unknown for quite some time. But after much searching it later was discovered in the graveyard of the Groff Meeting House. It was marked with only a simple slab of sandstone with the initials "H G".

Inscription
HANS GRAF,
The first Settler,
Came from Switzerland A.D. 1696.
Settlement was made at the head of Groff's Run.
He purchased 1419 Acres of land from John
Richard, S Thomas Penn, for 141L. 18 S.
[equal to $686.80] along Groff's Run. He Built
a log Cabin on the old Groff farm A.D. 1717.
His purchase included the land on which the
Groffdale Meeting House is built.
Died A.D. 1746.

Image
“Hans Graf, older memorial stone behind newer. Photo taken by Pat Baker on” …

i found Hans Graf (varied spellings) in my family history, not through family oral history at all.
i had my suspicions! :lol: frankly, my family “reeks” of Anabaptism, but not consciously that i’m aware.

even very young, i was puzzled about “things not adding up” wrt what i was told, what i witnessed wrt Christianity, Protestants, Catholics, Anabaptists - even Quakers, the military and COs.

in my family history i’ve found “almost everything” - no wonder the confusion! :lol: Heinz 57.
no Asians so far.

i have found consistent intent in seeking Truth and God’s will. i’m happy with that. generations of seekers.
Including (trace) Ethiopian and Indigenous Americans. (Asians might be in the mix somewhere.) Time might tell. :lol:

1600’s Hans Graff isn’t “that” distant.

i wish my parents were here. they would be floored.