Excommunication / Shunning / The Ban
Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:34 pm
The "By Their Words" thread brought up some interesting discussion about excommunication. I didn't want to further derail that thread, but I do want to continue the discussion.
As Josh said, there are only two Mennonite groups that excommunicate anyone who leaves their denomination. That definitely feels extreme, and the doctrine of OTC / Apostolic succession is obviously a completely indefensible position for anyone who is intellectually honest in either of those churches, but that doesn't mean the practice is wrong, or not working.
I don't want to get into a Biblical fundamentalism debate, because I'm not a fundamentalist, and I think there's a reason why the bible doesn't explain excommunication in exacting detail.
With that said, the evangelical standard of letting people leave a church for any reason, EXCEPT for a few hot button issues (gay marriage is basically the only problematic thing left in mainstream christianity) isn't turning out super well.
Our church and the Beachy-Amish church up the road do not under any circumstances practice the ban for members who leave for another church, and I think this creates a very specific problems that I will describe.
The older generation in our church had stable marriages, lived a relatively plain, separate lifestyle as they raised their families, and managed to get their kids married off or at least out of the house without contracting the societal diseases that the rest of mainstream christianity suffered from (divorce, promiscuity, excessive influence from TV / Movies etc). Coming from an Amish background, they reacted strongly against banning anyone who left, even if it was for obviously ungodly reasons.
This created a comfortable drift.
The next generation started marrying, initially each married couple chooses to attend the least conservative church between the two of theirs. The more conservative parents are disappointed, but the strong families remain a source of stability for the younger couples, even as they attend churches that provides none of that stability.
As more young people go through this transition, it becomes increasingly attractive, and less conservative church becomes the de factor church of choice for the younger generation. As the older people scratch their heads about why everyone is leaving, they continue to fellowship with and support their children, even as they drift towards a more and more worldly existence.
The younger generation is COMPLETELY blind to what is happening. They believe they've found a special "freedom in Christ" or "grace", and that they're parent's church is really kind of legalistic, and you know, "a lot of people at that church believe their saved because of their clothes", even though they can't name a single person who actually believes that.
This goes on for a generation, and everything looks fine from the inside. The less conservative church thinks they're special, because they're not having any of the problems other mainstream churches have, ignoring the fact that the previous generation is really sustaining them spiritually. The problems begin when that generation is gone, and all h*** breaks loose, literally.
Coming from the other side of this as a seeker, it's plain as day what is going on, and I can see all these young families heading for the nightmare of their children having no use for Christianity as a whole, and the parents being so confused, not understanding that they trashed every tradition that connected them to their faith, and passed nothing down to their kids except for a vague intellectual state that means your saved, but affects nothing in your life.
I watched this exact thing happen with the homeschool movement, and I'm devastated to see that the CMs are experiencing the exact same trajectory, with the same level of confusion.
With all that said, I see no solution to this drift without the CMs coming back to some kind of ban or disfellowship when members leave the church for no reason but to be more worldly. It's hard for me to even say that, because it feels "wrong", and it's daunting to even consider what it would take to quantify in a church rulebook what it means to leave for a "more worldly" church, but I simply see no alternative.
Sorry for the book, hopefully you can find the time to read it, and discuss.
As Josh said, there are only two Mennonite groups that excommunicate anyone who leaves their denomination. That definitely feels extreme, and the doctrine of OTC / Apostolic succession is obviously a completely indefensible position for anyone who is intellectually honest in either of those churches, but that doesn't mean the practice is wrong, or not working.
I don't want to get into a Biblical fundamentalism debate, because I'm not a fundamentalist, and I think there's a reason why the bible doesn't explain excommunication in exacting detail.
With that said, the evangelical standard of letting people leave a church for any reason, EXCEPT for a few hot button issues (gay marriage is basically the only problematic thing left in mainstream christianity) isn't turning out super well.
Our church and the Beachy-Amish church up the road do not under any circumstances practice the ban for members who leave for another church, and I think this creates a very specific problems that I will describe.
The older generation in our church had stable marriages, lived a relatively plain, separate lifestyle as they raised their families, and managed to get their kids married off or at least out of the house without contracting the societal diseases that the rest of mainstream christianity suffered from (divorce, promiscuity, excessive influence from TV / Movies etc). Coming from an Amish background, they reacted strongly against banning anyone who left, even if it was for obviously ungodly reasons.
This created a comfortable drift.
The next generation started marrying, initially each married couple chooses to attend the least conservative church between the two of theirs. The more conservative parents are disappointed, but the strong families remain a source of stability for the younger couples, even as they attend churches that provides none of that stability.
As more young people go through this transition, it becomes increasingly attractive, and less conservative church becomes the de factor church of choice for the younger generation. As the older people scratch their heads about why everyone is leaving, they continue to fellowship with and support their children, even as they drift towards a more and more worldly existence.
The younger generation is COMPLETELY blind to what is happening. They believe they've found a special "freedom in Christ" or "grace", and that they're parent's church is really kind of legalistic, and you know, "a lot of people at that church believe their saved because of their clothes", even though they can't name a single person who actually believes that.
This goes on for a generation, and everything looks fine from the inside. The less conservative church thinks they're special, because they're not having any of the problems other mainstream churches have, ignoring the fact that the previous generation is really sustaining them spiritually. The problems begin when that generation is gone, and all h*** breaks loose, literally.
Coming from the other side of this as a seeker, it's plain as day what is going on, and I can see all these young families heading for the nightmare of their children having no use for Christianity as a whole, and the parents being so confused, not understanding that they trashed every tradition that connected them to their faith, and passed nothing down to their kids except for a vague intellectual state that means your saved, but affects nothing in your life.
I watched this exact thing happen with the homeschool movement, and I'm devastated to see that the CMs are experiencing the exact same trajectory, with the same level of confusion.
With all that said, I see no solution to this drift without the CMs coming back to some kind of ban or disfellowship when members leave the church for no reason but to be more worldly. It's hard for me to even say that, because it feels "wrong", and it's daunting to even consider what it would take to quantify in a church rulebook what it means to leave for a "more worldly" church, but I simply see no alternative.
Sorry for the book, hopefully you can find the time to read it, and discuss.