Immodest and/or Suggestive Men's Clothing & Styles?

[steve-in-kville]

Me, personally, think there is a bit of an imbalance in the anabaptist community when it comes to standards in modesty. The ladies seem to get the brunt of preaching/teaching on clothing, dress styles, being modest and non-suggestive in their wardrobe. Us guys? Yes, I've heard some things over the years but its a fraction of what the ladies endure. And the few things I have heard preached was more along the lines of wearing printed T-shirts or ball caps with logos.

I poached this from the "Fitted to Holiness" thread from a week or so back (Thanks to Aurien)....

"Western/cowboy: take-charge/in-control persona and posture; showy; quick to anger; swagger step; slow and deliberate manner and speech; gum (simulating chaw); blue grass/country/Gospel style music; independent, Western spirit: freedom of the road; Western novels and romances. Men in particular: jeans/denim pants; Western-style button-down shirt, especially plaids and paisley; large belt and buckle; boots; oversized, noisy trucks; tough, aggressive, machismo; spitting."

It was impossible to make this a thorough and complete poll, so I am asking for a discussion on things that the ladies (and men) would find to be immodest and/or suggestion wear for a man. All are registered members in good standing are invited to participate. Feel free to give personal opinion, tell stories, maybe what your church expects, or whatever, just keep it civil.

May God add His blessing.

[Grace]

Steve, thanks for starting this thread. I think one of the reasons there is such a focus on women’s modesty is because of the overwhelming changes in women’s fashion over the last century or more. And when I talk about clothing, I am talking about what respectable, professional, and Christian men and women wore. Looking back one hundred years what did men wear? They wore trousers and shirts. What do they wear today? They still wear trousers and shirts, (with the exception of shorts). One hundred years ago what did women wear? They wore dresses that usually covered their bodies adequately. Today women’s fashions have changed substantially. Just watch some major news outlets and you will see the men wearing professional and neat suits and ties. The women, however, have very tight form fitting dresses, often way to short.

People may say that the Mennonite culture is hard on the women as far as modesty goes, and that may be true, but I look at it as the Mennonite women didn’t move with the culture in their dress. And that is a good thing.

Modesty goes way beyond just dress and should be reflected in a Christian's whole life. When I see a plain woman exiting an expensive Cadillac Escalade, I am beyond understanding or words.

Also the cowboy persona in a guy simply does not go with a girl wearing a long modest dress and a covering. And I have seen that many times. Same can be said about the men wearing shorts.

Another thing I have seen, is a man who gains some weight, but refuses to buy larger trousers. And usually those trousers go with a plain suit. When he removes his suit coat, the too tight trousers are just immodest. However women do not interpret tight trousers the same way a man would if they are worn by a woman. Most women view the tight trousers as just gross.

Several years ago we attended a chapel service at a local retirement community. The minister fit the description I just described in the prior paragraph. One out spoken elderly lady didn’t mince her words and said, “He is to fat and should have left his suit coat on”. I might add that she has somewhat hearing impaired, so her voice volume was on "high".

[JimFoxvog]

There are a couple of verses in the New Testament that speak to women's apparel, but I think only ones for men are the verses about not having the head covered for prayer. However, I think the same principle apply.

Tuxedos, expensive suits, jewelry, or expensive shoes all seem immodest to me. Basically, anything that appears to be costly or an attempt to look classier or richer than others.

I spend much of the summer shirtless and with my thighs visible and feel no sense of being suggestive.

[Grace]

Tuxedos, expensive suits, jewelry, or expensive shoes all seem immodest to me. Basically, anything that appears to be costly or an attempt to look classier or richer than others.

Agreed.

I spend much of the summer shirtless and with my thighs visible and feel no sense of being suggestive.

When I see men shirtless and thighs visible, the word suggestive does not come to mind. Exactly the opposite....ewww.

[Neto]

Because I am from MB background I sometimes get tagged here as "Evangelical" (AKA 'liberal'), but I have always followed the standards I was taught growing up in the MB church - no men's shorts except for swimming, and then looser long ones (I had my mom make some for me when I was in HS - almost to my knees), no T-shirts, but button shirts, with no more than the top button undone.
So I'll go on to what isn't really clothing, but rather attitude, and what is done about it. Extreme exercise for the purpose of "bulking up", then wearing tight shirts in order to expose the results.
One interesting sort of double standard is that women can go to services in many church settings in sandals, but it isn't really acceptable for men to do that. Not really sure where that comes from.

[steve-in-kville]

My opinion on the matter has changed (evolved?) over the years. I personally am not a shorts person. Back in my running days, I wore gym pants. Once 5k's and the like start opening up and I get myself back in "race shape" I may use a longer pair of running shorts for races. Maybe. And that's if I do another event again which remains to be seen.

I have a collection of sleeveless shirts that are mostly my old work T-shirts whereas the sleeves have been cut off. I do wear them outside in the garden and while mowing yard when its warm. I have yet to leave the property dressed like that.

I have been known to gallivant around inside my own home in basketball shorts. Usually late evenings after I've showered and its nearing bedtime. Wife seems to approve and it works for me.

I totally get the tight pants on over-weight men. I even find it a bit unsettling. Its the equivalent of yoga pants on women who have no business wearing yoga pants... in public anyway

[Josh]

One of the more amusing things to watch is barely-conservative Mennos who shorten the sleeves on their T-shirts (but who would never just buy and wear a tank top).

[steve-in-kville]

One of the more amusing things to watch is barely-conservative Mennos who shorten the sleeves on their T-shirts (but who would never just buy and wear a tank top).

Or roll the sleeves up anyway... still has sleeves, right?

[temporal1]

Because I am from MB background I sometimes get tagged here as "Evangelical" (AKA 'liberal'), but I have always followed the standards I was taught growing up in the MB church - no men's shorts except for swimming, and then looser long ones (I had my mom make some for me when I was in HS - almost to my knees), no T-shirts, but button shirts, with no more than the top button undone.

So I'll go on to what isn't really clothing, but rather attitude, and what is done about it.
Extreme exercise for the purpose of "bulking up", then wearing tight shirts in order to expose the results.

One interesting sort of double standard is that women can go to services in many church settings in sandals, but it isn't really acceptable for men to do that. Not really sure where that comes from.

Attitude, and “presentation” of oneself are at the root.
It harkens to the words about following the letter of the law, rather than the spirit.

By God’s design and purpose, youth and beauty are attractive. Sin complicates.
For many, “modest” dress is more attractive than immodest or flamboyant dress. There is no effective “turning off” hormones. Control lies within. The larger sizes of families within plain communities indicates hormones work just fine, regardless of dress.

Another aspect i think about is how, prior to modern BC pills, females were regarded as gate keepers of all sorts of morality, including sexuality. The stakes were very high, thus, more emphasis on female morality, this includes dress, and personal “presentation.”
With more privilege comes more responsibility.

i’m sorry so much has been sacrificed in the world’s quest to turn women (and children) into “small men,” misusing words like, “equality” and “rights” to get there.

i would prefer more sophistication regarding what is valued, how, and why.
i find the secular world sorely lacking. human reasoning reminds me of the proverbial “bull in a china shop.” with sorry results.

of note is, women as “high stakes” moral gatekeepers is reflected in most cultures. outward appearances and customs vary dramatically, but the understanding of females’ unique gift and function is universal.

i’m not overly bothered that more emphasis is put on females than males when it comes to dress, or even general presentation.
while i don’t believe it should be ignored, i don’t view it as apples to apples. in scriptures or elsewhere.

[Soloist]

Beardless men look like women.

The early church says so

But for one who is a man to comb himself and shave himself with a razor, for the sake of fine effect, to arrange his hair at the looking-glass, to shave his cheeks, pluck hairs out of them, and smooth them, how womanly! And, in truth, unless you saw them naked, you would suppose them to be women. Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 195) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.2 pg.275

I suggest we move to excommunicate Eastern from Mennonet!