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Hi, I have heard that the Holdemans Mennonites are a very traditional branch of Mennonites. I am interested in visiting and possibly joining if I like it and can be of one mind with their key doctrines and practices. Are they thriving? someone in a video on youtube suggested they are declining and becoming "worldly" while I read elsewhere that they are growing in numbers and are one of the strongest groups at maintaining uniformity and membership.

Im familiar with conservative Mennonite churches , how do holdeman Mennonites compare to conservative Mennonites culturally?
how do holdemans approach social media and technology, is it popular to use social media, discouraged or restricted?
If you are a holdeman any fun or interesting stories that can illustrate similarities and differences or aspects you find unique?
Do they separate unmarried people from married people into the same youth structure as conservative Mennonites, what would it be like participating in youth in a holdeman Mennonite church?
What is it like being a member and working for someone in the church vs a member working for an employer outside the church?
how welcoming are they to people seeking to join a church like theirs?
how are the services are operated, how are the relationships between the leadership and the membership expected to be?

theodoreclaudius wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:03 pm Hi, I have heard that the Holdemans Mennonites are a very traditional branch of Mennonites. I am interested in visiting and possibly joining if I like it and can be of one mind with their key doctrines and practices. Are they thriving? someone in a video on youtube suggested they are declining and becoming "worldly" while I read elsewhere that they are growing in numbers and are one of the strongest groups at maintaining uniformity and membership.

Im familiar with conservative Mennonite churches , how do holdeman Mennonites compare to conservative Mennonites culturally?
how do holdemans approach social media and technology, is it popular to use social media, discouraged or restricted?
If you are a holdeman any fun or interesting stories that can illustrate similarities and differences or aspects you find unique?
Do they separate unmarried people from married people into the same youth structure as conservative Mennonites, what would it be like participating in youth in a holdeman Mennonite church?
What is it like being a member and working for someone in the church vs a member working for an employer outside the church?
how welcoming are they to people seeking to join a church like theirs?
how are the services are operated, how are the relationships between the leadership and the membership expected to be?

Most of this I think Josh can answer, but they are welcoming like most Mennonite churches. My experience, while strange... I was very welcome. The key thing I cannot accept at this point is the one true church mentality. You would be required to be baptized by them to join them just like some German Baptist groups.
I can respect them and I have never had any negative experiences with them.

I'm going to attempt to answer these questions as best I can.

Im familiar with conservative Mennonite churches , how do holdeman Mennonites compare to conservative Mennonites culturally?

Most people in the Holdeman church are of "Russian Mennonite" descent.

The "dress code" or "clothing tradition" of the Holdemans is on a completely different spectrum from conservative Mennonites. Cape dresses aren't a thing in our conference, neither are plain coats (I think they're called?) I've heard that most conservative mennonites call our clothing worldly and immodest (which in some cases, I think they might have a point)

how do holdemans approach social media and technology, is it popular to use social media, discouraged or restricted?

I remember when social media was banned in the Holdeman church. The youth started using Twitter and Facebook in the late 00's as I remember. At some point the leadership across the conference decided that social media was not acceptable and made sure that everyone stopped using it. As time has passed however, the young people have started using social media. That does vary from congregation to congregation, however.

The Holdeman conference is one of the few churches I know of that has taken a stance against photography for entertainment purposes (there might be more out there than I think).

If you are a holdeman any fun or interesting stories that can illustrate similarities and differences or aspects you find unique?

Josh probably would be able to answer this better than I, since he joined as a seeker. I however grew up in the Holdeman church.

The one thing I can think of is the way the young people find a spouse. I know that in the Groffdale and Weaverland conferences, this happens through dating throughout their youth life. In my church, the ideal is that you meet someone, feel a conviction about them, and propose. That of course is a vast oversimplification. My oldest brother and his wife did not know each other when he "sent the proposal." Her testimony is that when she received the proposal, she felt at peace about it.

Do they separate unmarried people from married people into the same youth structure as conservative Mennonites, what would it be like participating in youth in a holdeman Mennonite church?

I think the answer to this is yes. As I've gotten older, and my friends that were once in the youth group have gotten married, I find myself preferring to hang out with them rather than the 16yo youths. With that in mind, to say "separate" is a bit strong. I feel comfortable fellowshiping with people who are married just as much as I do with those who are single.

What would it be like? Are you good at volleyball? Holdemans are obsessed with volleyball.

What is it like being a member and working for someone in the church vs a member working for an employer outside the church?

The employer in the church is going to be a bit more understanding of your desire for time off, I think. People aren't really viewed with skepticism due to working for non-members.

how welcoming are they to people seeking to join a church like theirs?

I leave this one to Josh.

how are the services are operated

I'm not sure what you have in mind with this question. Sunday morning services typically start at 10AM with 45 minutes of Sunday School. The preaching service starts after that with a song, announcements, another song, then an "introduction", another song, and then the sermon by one of the ordained ministers. Another song, and then benediction and the service is done.

Evening services vary from preaching, to "layman's evening"--where the brethren of the church bring their inspirations to the congregation.

how are the relationships between the leadership and the membership expected to be?

How it is depends on your sincerity. When I was younger and not sincerely living my Christian life, I was afraid of my leadership.

Now, however, I'm not afraid of my leadership, they are human and have all the same trials I do.

That's what I can mash out in 45 minutes, so forgive me if anything is unclear.

Curious - what is the "introduction" part of the service ?

Sudsy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:50 pm Curious - what is the "introduction" part of the service ?

Any (male)* member is welcome to get up and share an inspiration, scripture etc to get the service started.

*Once a deacon’s wife said she considered giving the introduction after 30 seconds of awkward silence waiting for a volunteer to step forward.

Josh wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:12 pm

Sudsy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:50 pm Curious - what is the "introduction" part of the service ?

Any (male)* member is welcome to get up and share an inspiration, scripture etc to get the service started.

*Once a deacon’s wife said she considered giving the introduction after 30 seconds of awkward silence waiting for a volunteer to step forward.

This is something like what I grew up in (Pentecostal) and we called it 'testimony time'. However, it sometimes would go on for over an hour as people wanted to share what was on their heart. Some would preach a mini sermon, some would tell of their witnessing experiences in the last week, some quoted their favorite scripture verses, some would even sing a special verse of a hymn, etc. They did this by standing up at the pew they were in as the leader gave them the nod to speak. It was quite common for a Sunday morning service to go 2 hours and more. And then we returned for another 2 hours in a Sunday evening service that had special evangelical emphasis for us to bring outsiders to. Them were the good ole days.

Once a month our churches have a custom of a volunteer service where anyone can get up share an inspiration. The service is usually an hour long. During another once a month service that is more programmed, one member will be selected by the person in charge of the service to get up and share. They can choose basically anything, although there is usually a theme in mind.

Generally we do not have a tradition of “protracted meetings” that go on and on for hours, although in the old days some revival preaching services could exceed 2 hours. We don’t have rules against it tho, like some Old Orders do, who were studious in resisting 1900-era fads like protracted meetings, altar calls, very long times of allowing and encouraging the audience to share inspirations, Sunday school, revival meetings, Wednesday night meetings, weekly Sunday meetings (instead of every other), Sunday night meetings, summer vacation Bible schools, Christmas and Easter services, abandonment of Pentecost, Ascension, and “Old Christmas” (January 6), in home Bible studies in independent small groups, usage of mass printed Sunday school curriculum, and other thing too numerous to list. Holdemans have embraced most but not all of those things.

Ironically, some of these things (in particularly Wednesday night meetings) are going out of fashion in less conservative groups and eventually the only people left doing them will be ultra conservatives.

Josh wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:57 pm Once a month our churches have a custom of a volunteer service where anyone can get up share an inspiration.

Sounds like what was done in the Mennonite Brethren congregation I grew up in, only I think that the program participants were known before the service started. It was called "Christian Endeavor", and when I was a young child, it was the only Sunday evening services during which I could always stay awake for the entire time. (Services started at 7:45, and went till 9:00. That was pretty late for a child, at least in that era.) Anyway, it could be poems, Scripture recitation, another type of reading, or music. There were regular women's trios that sang with just the piano accompaniment, but the men's groups usually included harmonicas, guitar(s), and an accordion. The songs sung & played were almost always hymns, often of the old camp meeting style, like 'Brighten the Corner Where you are', or "I'll be Somewhere Listening". (We seldom sang a'cappella in the MB church. We had at least one adult member who had come from KMB background, and later, when I was in the church choir, he often encouraged us to sing the Hallelujah Chorus w/o instrumentation, but we never did. We DID occasionally sing other songs a'cappella, but that one would have been much more difficult.) (KMB stands for Kreimer Mennonite Brethren, a separate MB group that had formed in the Crimean Mennonite colonies, and merged with the MB conference in around 1964.)

Sounds like what was done in the Mennonite Brethren congregation I grew up in, only I think that the program participants were known before the service started. It was called "Christian Endeavor"

We have one of those once a month as well. "C.E. Program" organized by a rotating selection of couples.

We have CE as well which I believe was copied from another denomination. The volunteer service is actually a different event.