Are ‘Traditional Plain Churches’ Views on Wealth Scriptural?

[DrWojo]

You'd be hard-pressed to find many if any CEOs of $140 million organizations (even non-profits) who were paid only $100K, especially with the skill-set and responsibility needed to manage the fiscal, personnel, and relational realities of the position. Most donors would expect nothing less I believe.

I get what you are saying Dan, and I don't begrudge him at all. And I don't fault them. Still for the record, I also get what Hats Off is saying. There is something that grates on a 40-50K a year person that is scraping to donate/tithe to a nonprofit and then find out the nonprofit leader is making six figures or more. (Once in another life, as a Principal and then Assistant Superintendent in the NYC DOE I experienced salaries at or above that level.) Personally, though, now as the leader of a nonprofit Christian school, I don't like the idea of making a lot more than many of those who sacrifice/give to support our work. Same goes for pastors. I know there are pastors that make six figures, but it rubs me the wrong direction if they make more than their average offering givers.

I realize it means I'll never have a "cabin" in the mountains and I'll never have a "camper" or a college fund...but I'd rather do that than live off the backs of givers.

Or: There’s something that grates about being expected to take a lower salary “for the sake of the mission” that’s being funded by some fabulously wealthy businessmen and businesses that give instead of going.

Or a little further: Being involved in a nonprofit earns a lot of social benefit for major donors and board members, especially in Mennonite circles. Is it fair to ask the actual mission workers to make sacrifices to subsidize a status symbol?

———

We like to imagine the idealized hard-scrapping sacrificially-funded nonprofit, but in reality a well-run nonprofit needs a lot of funding—and wealthy people to provide it. I think the two pictures—yours and mine—are both true and they’re in tension. And I don’t think that tension will be resolved until we decide what we really think about wealth. But this is probably another thread.

I can’t agree more. And I patiently waited for someone to start this thread, then I decided I might as well. My driving desire is to determine what the Light of Scripture portrays on the subject. I fear the world’s perceptions and deceptions have distorted many Christians’ views on the subject. A couple days ago I had a brief visit with someone I occasionally run into at the local library and he asked me if I was familiar with Gary North’s books. Something I read that day is still going through my mind as I write this post. Here it is: Gary North, president of the Institute for Christian Economics, in his book Tools of Dominion The Case Laws of Exodus, writes,

We are witnessing today a recapitulation of Moses’ experience with the Jews of his day. Protestant fundamentalist Christians have their eyes on the sky, their heads in the clouds, their hearts in Egypt, and their children in the government’s schools. So, for that matter, do most of the other Christian groups . . . If the modern church were honest,. it would rewrite one of the popular hymns of our day: “O, how hate I thy law, O, how hate I thy law. It is my consternation all the day.” But the modern church, hating God’s revealed law with all its Egyptian heart, is inherently dishonest. It is self-deceived, having no permanent ethical standards to use as an honest mirror. The hearer of the word who refuses to obey, James says, is like a man who beholds his face in a looking glass, walks away, “and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was” (James 1: 24b). The modern Christian refuses even to pick up the mirror of God’s law and look.

I fully expect MN readers will wonder, “Why in the world did he dare to quote someone so far from an Anabaptist.” My reply, “Because just like the comparison of the ancient Jew to today’s Protestant, if Jehovah could use wicked men to discipline the Israelites, He certainly can use the writing of a Protestant (possibly even quasi-liberal at that) to exhort Plain people to recheck His mirror whether Biblical principles of Stewardship are still to be found among them.

Discuss and disgust at will

[steve-in-kville]

Short answer - No. Jesus taught to life simply. Not accumulate wealth which is where so many go wrong. I worked for a company that was owned by a conservative man and thus the majority of the employees there were of the same stripe. There was this mentality that unless you're working 50 hours a week at a day job, moonlighting at a second part-time venture and breeding and selling dogs, you were lazy and not ambitious!

[Hats Off]

My short answer "NO!" I think we have some of those who believe wealth is an indication of God's blessing, and according to the words God gave to Moses, this would be the case. But things changed when Jesus came and ushered in the NT era. We could probably learn some things from books by Gary Miller, although I have never read them.

[steve-in-kville]

Once we are empty nesters, I don't even plan to live in a house. Yeah, maybe I'll own property, but only to park the RV or Sprinter van we live in. We've replaced the American dream with the Mennonite dream. Its all about who has the biggest diesel truck, the new John Deere zero-turn, big rancher...you get it.

I see the families getting smaller so the parents can afford vacations and all the stuff I mentioned above. This is backwards from God's plan.

[DrWojo]

My short answer "NO!" I think we have some of those who believe wealth is an indication of God's blessing, and according to the words God gave to Moses, this would be the case. But things changed when Jesus came and ushered in the NT era. We could probably learn some things from books by Gary Miller, although I have never read them.

From the appearance of reading poster’s defense and justification of the CEO’s wages, as opposed to that of total volunteers and the real missionaries in the trenches, I’d say they must be reading more of Joel Osteen’s Your Best Life Now and less Biographies like George Mueller, let alone Christ’s teaching in the Gospels the disciples were not to take provisions with them.

[Wayne in Maine]

Would you include Hutterites in the category of "Traditional Plain Churches"?

[Ken]

Are ‘MOST Churches’ Views on Wealth Scriptural?

Fixed that subject line for you.

Greed and desire for security are among the most fundamental of all human urges.

I think there are very few institutional churches of any kind who don't struggle with this in some way. Those few who don't are more the exception to the rule.

[Hats Off]

Would you include Hutterites in the category of "Traditional Plain Churches"?

Depends on subject matter. Some of the Hutterite colonies are quite wealthy, even though individuals don't get to live that way. But they do have the security we long for.

[DrWojo]

Are ‘MOST Churches’ Views on Wealth Scriptural?

Fixed that subject line for you.

Greed and desire for security are among the most fundamental of all human urges.

I think there are very few institutional churches of any kind who don't struggle with this in some way. Those few who don't are more the exception to the rule.

I’m curious why the shift from comparing Plain Churches’ view on finances to MOST Churches at large? Is it perhaps easier or more convenient in that context? Or do Plain Churches already exert too much control over their constituents so being given direction in the area of wealth and finances would be the ‘last straw’ that ‘breaks the camel’s back?’

[Ken]

Are ‘MOST Churches’ Views on Wealth Scriptural?

Fixed that subject line for you.

Greed and desire for security are among the most fundamental of all human urges.

I think there are very few institutional churches of any kind who don't struggle with this in some way. Those few who don't are more the exception to the rule.

I’m curious why the shift from comparing Plain Churches’ view on finances to MOST Churches at large? Is it perhaps easier or more convenient in that context? Or do Plain Churches already exert too much control over their constituents so being given direction in the area of wealth and finances would be the ‘last straw’ that ‘breaks the camel’s back?’

I'm just saying I think this is a pretty universal issue and not something limited to plain churches. You could ask the same exact question about any denomination and get similar answers. Although conservative plain churches certainly give more lip service to the issue than say Mormons or Catholics. But there are plenty of millionaire farmers attending plain churches.

Or to put it another way. You can own a 500 acre farm in PA (500 acres x a conservative $5,000 per acre = $2.5 million) and an additional half million dollars worth of farming equipment and a lot of conservative churches would not raise an eyebrow. But if you are a school teacher with a net worth that is 1/20th that amount it will raise eyebrows if your car is a bit too fancy even though you might be driving 100 miles per day round trip to your teaching job. So I would say there is a lot of hypocrisy on this topic in the plain churches as everywhere else.