Query: Submission to the weaker brother?

[MaxPC]

I haven't heard of this phrase before. RZehr first mentions it and Ernie includes it in his list. Would you gentlemen kindly provide a definition for this phrase for my edification?

# 23
Submission to the weaker brother. e.g. submitting in “lifestyle standards”.
viewtopic.phpf=4&t=183&p=4070#p4048

I'm interested in finding its corollary in our books.

[temporal1]

so glad you began this topic.
i, too, wanted to learn more.

[Bootstrap]

This concept comes from 1 Corinthians 8. Even if you believe that something is not wrong, and can do it in good conscience, doing it may cause someone who sees it as wrong to stumble. You have to consider the effect on others too.

4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.” 5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

7 However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. 8 Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do. 9 But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols? 11 And so by your knowledge this weak person is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died. 12 Thus, sinning against your brothers and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.

[Bootstrap]

I think it's helpful to read 1 Corinthians 8 together with what Paul says about "weaker members" in 1 Corinthians 12:

21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you,” nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and on those parts of the body that we think less honorable we bestow the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty, 24 which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving greater honor to the part that lacked it, 25 that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.

[Bootstrap]

Perhaps 1 Peter 3 is also relevant:

7 Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.

A lot of things bother my wife that don't bother me. I need to be understanding with that ...

[MaxPC]

so glad you began this topic.
i, too, wanted to learn more.

Thank you. I'm looking forward to RZehr's and Ernie's definitions/thoughts.

[Ernie]

The other passage to reference is Romans 14.
In this chapter Paul I would understand Paul to be saying that no one should eat pork around a Christian who doesn't eat pork due to OT law. (Am I understanding correctly anyone?)

A direct application for today might be someone who doesn't want to buy something on Sunday because of OT law forbidding such. It would be wrong to scorn his conscience on this matter. It would be better to give him a check the following week then make him accept it on Sunday.

And indirect application for today might be a brother who doesn't sing Christmas songs over Christmas time because it is celebrating Jesus birth on an ancient pagan holiday. The kind thing to do would be to choose other songs when he comes to your house or if you go to his, rather than sing them right in front of him and vex his soul.

At the same time, the weaker brother should not hold the church hostage.In the church I once was part of, there was a man who wanted to keep his beard even though that was not the practice in that church. When he joined the church he asked the bishop if he could keep his beard. The bishop replied, "Can you live at peace with the rest of us who don't wear beards? If so, you can keep yours."

[temporal1]

Thank you, Ernie, and thank you for including your important last sentence (paragraph!) to keep in mind.

i went on to find more on this, with more references:
Romans 14 Who is the weak brother?
http://www.eliyah.com/romans14.html

with this home page:
http://www.eliyah.com/

(never read from this source before.)

[ken_sylvania]

The other passage to reference is Romans 14.
In this chapter Paul I would understand Paul to be saying that no one should eat pork around a Christian who doesn't eat pork due to OT law. (Am I understanding correctly anyone?)

Another possibility would be that he was referring to meat offered to idols. I tend to think of Romans 14 as complementary with 1 Corinthians 8, where Paul tells the Corinthians that yes, we know that idols really are nothing - they are just bits of stone or wood covered with silver or gold. As such, there is really no inherent harm in eating meat that has been offered to idols (tell that to the people that think we can become demon possessed by using essential oils). In fact, as far as that goes, those of us who aren't tempted to idol worship in that way could eat a meal in the idol temple without being affected. But knowing the damage it would do to our testimony among those who do believe in idol powers, and the increased temptations it would place in front of those already struggling with temptations to go back to the idol temples, the rest of us should stay out.
This might be a bad illustration, but for an example lets think about shopping at Bass Pro Shops. I am not much of a hunter or a fisherman. If I need to pick up some shotgun shells for varmint control, it makes no difference to me whether I pick them up at Walmart or Bass Pro. But if someone faces strong temptations to idolize hunting or fishing, Bass Pro might be a dangerous place to shop. I would be violating the principle of 1 Corinthians 8 were I to take such a brother shopping at a place that tempts him, or give him a gift card to such a place. Some churches in our area discourage their young men from shopping at Cabelas, and I respect that. I think it's a way of putting the submission to a weaker brother concept into shoe leather.

[lesterb]

The other passage to reference is Romans 14.
In this chapter Paul I would understand Paul to be saying that no one should eat pork around a Christian who doesn't eat pork due to OT law. (Am I understanding correctly anyone?)

Another possibility would be that he was referring to meat offered to idols. I tend to think of Romans 14 as complementary with 1 Corinthians 8, where Paul tells the Corinthians that yes, we know that idols really are nothing - they are just bits of stone or wood covered with silver or gold. As such, there is really no inherent harm in eating meat that has been offered to idols (tell that to the people that think we can become demon possessed by using essential oils). In fact, as far as that goes, those of us who aren't tempted to idol worship in that way could eat a meal in the idol temple without being affected. But knowing the damage it would do to our testimony among those who do believe in idol powers, and the increased temptations it would place in front of those already struggling with temptations to go back to the idol temples, the rest of us should stay out.
This might be a bad illustration, but for an example lets think about shopping at Bass Pro Shops. I am not much of a hunter or a fisherman. If I need to pick up some shotgun shells for varmint control, it makes no difference to me whether I pick them up at Walmart or Bass Pro. But if someone faces strong temptations to idolize hunting or fishing, Bass Pro might be a dangerous place to shop. I would be violating the principle of 1 Corinthians 8 were I to take such a brother shopping at a place that tempts him, or give him a gift card to such a place. Some churches in our area discourage their young men from shopping at Cabelas, and I respect that. I think it's a way of putting the submission to a weaker brother concept into shoe leather.

I understand what you're saying. But I've seen these passages used by people who are trying to coerce other people in the church to go along with their thinking. They can argue pretty strongly from the weaker brother perspective, though it's pretty evident that I'm actually the weaker brother because I don't see certain dangers.

How far should a person allow himself to be pushed?