Honour/Double Honour

[Hats Off]

I understand that when someone is ordained to the office of minister or elder, he is worthy of the honour that goes with the office. We need to honour and respect the man because of his office as long as he isn't unworthy and doesn't dishonour his office. The man who serves well, who goes out of his way to fill his office to the best of his ability is worthy of double honour, first due to his office, secondly because of his devotion to the office.

King James Bible 1 Timothy 5:17
Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

1 Thessalonians 5 :12 And we urge you, brethren, to recognize those who labor among you, and are over you in the Lord and [d]admonish you, 13 and to esteem them very highly in love for their work’s sake. Be at peace among yourselves.

We acknowledge their authority but do not venerate or worship them.

[steve-in-kville]

So to say that respect must be earned doesn't mean anything here?

[Hats Off]

My thinking is that before they are nominated for the office they have already earned someones's respect. When they are ordained we owe it to them to honour them for the office which they are called to.

[Bootstrap]

I suspect that "honor" has something to do with money in this chapter. Look at what it says about widows:

Honor widows who are truly widows. But if a widow has children or grandchildren, let them first learn to show godliness to their own household and to make some return to their parents, for this is pleasing in the sight of God. She who is truly a widow, left all alone, has set her hope on God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day, but she who is self-indulgent is dead even while she lives. Command these things as well, so that they may be without reproach. But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Let a widow be enrolled if she is not less than sixty years of age, having been the wife of one husband, and having a reputation for good works: if she has brought up children, has shown hospitality, has washed the feet of the saints, has cared for the afflicted, and has devoted herself to every good work. But refuse to enroll younger widows, for when their passions draw them away from Christ, they desire to marry and so incur condemnation for having abandoned their former faith.

In context, honoring a widow and caring for her financial needs are closely linked here.

And in the verse you quote, honor is linked to food and wages:

Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.”

[Hats Off]

Since we don't pay our ordained men, we have to understand it to mean respect. However if an ordained man is expected to travel because of his office, and faces financial constraints, individuals may well show their respect and honour with financial assistance.

[Valerie]

I suspect that "honor" has something to do with money in this chapter. Look at what it says about widows:

Honor widows who are truly widows. But if a widow has children or grandchildren, let them first learn to show godliness to their own household and to make some return to their parents, for this is pleasing in the sight of God. She who is truly a widow, left all alone, has set her hope on God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day, but she who is self-indulgent is dead even while she lives. Command these things as well, so that they may be without reproach. But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Let a widow be enrolled if she is not less than sixty years of age, having been the wife of one husband, and having a reputation for good works: if she has brought up children, has shown hospitality, has washed the feet of the saints, has cared for the afflicted, and has devoted herself to every good work. But refuse to enroll younger widows, for when their passions draw them away from Christ, they desire to marry and so incur condemnation for having abandoned their former faith.

In context, honoring a widow and caring for her financial needs are closely linked here.

And in the verse you quote, honor is linked to food and wages:

Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.”

So double honor might mean double pay?

[Josh]

I have heard rumours that some churches here and there have taken whatever the proposed salary for the senior pastor is, and then double it, based on this verse.

[Valerie]

I have heard rumours that some churches here and there have taken whatever the proposed salary for the senior pastor is, and then double it, based on this verse.

So honor is monetary pay, and double honor is double pay. Wonder what they base that on?
So honoring your father & mother would be paying them too? I know we are to look after them in their latter years, monetarily if necessary- but I always thought honoring your parents (as in one of the 10 commandments) would have meant while you were growing up AND in your adult life- I never connected that to paying them before. Maybe the Greek has different meanings, like for example our word for love has several meanings in the Greek-

[Josh]

It's hard for me to understand the passage of scripture, but I agree with Boot's interpretation that it definitely seems to be talking about wages or something like wages / support / material help. There isn't much good scholarship supporting alternative views.

Boot, perhaps this would be a good topic for a more in depth study of the text?

[ken_sylvania]

An interesting concept to think about in the context of Mark 7:9-13

And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.