What are churches doing to stop predators in the church?

[JohnH]

The state cannot set criteria for our ministry, or we would disobey out of conviction.

Sure they can. You either agree to be a mandatory reporter, or else you're in violation of the law.

That is false.

As far as I see it, there are two options:

- Agree to engage in mandatory reporting, and be in compliance with the law.

- Don't do mandatory reporting, and be in noncompliance with the law.

Is there some third option I am missing?

[Judas Maccabeus]

The state cannot set criteria for our ministry, or we would disobey out of conviction.

Sure they can. You either agree to be a mandatory reporter, or else you're in violation of the law.

That is false.

I know. I have been through the process. I was never asked to agree to such a thing.

[Judas Maccabeus]

The state cannot set criteria for our ministry, or we would disobey out of conviction.

Sure they can. You either agree to be a mandatory reporter, or else you're in violation of the law.

That is false.

Of course, some who have never been through the process know far more than those of us who have. Who have never been members of churches in PA or one based in PA, and in fact, is inelegable for membership in most conservative churches.

Of course, membership in the "One True Visible Church®" confers special knowledge, right?

[Thomas_muntzer]

Generally speaking I don't think it's possible for churches to "protect" children from their parents. It's not the church's job, even, and is not really possible to do. Exactly how is a church supposed to do that?

Child sexual abuse within the home is a terrible thing, and according to statistics, in most cases the perpetrator is part of the child's inner circle: a relative, family friend, or teacher.

Obviously, a church cannot predict and effectively prevent these crimes from occurring within a home, but it is a spiritual and Christian duty to report any situation and information to the authorities as soon as it is known.

Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist have been appointed by God. 2 Therefore, whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment upon themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the one in authority? Then do what is good, and you will be commended. 4 For he is God’s servant to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid, for he does not bear his sword in vain. For he is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to execute judgment on those who practice evil. 5 Therefore you must submit, not only because of wrath but also for the sake of your conscience.
Romans 13:1-5

The word of God is very clear: we must submit to the laws so that governments punish evil, and I can find no worse crime that justifies submission to civil laws than crimes against children.

[Thomas_muntzer]

These are old cases where they may not have been mandated reporters, so what then?

As a follower of Christ, I do not need a law that compels me to report a crime against a child when I become aware of it

[JohnH]

In some jurisdictions, it has been the case where not allowing a child to express a transgender or homosexual identity is "child abuse". Would you want to still report such a person to the authorities?

This topic is complex, not simple.

The other problem is the authorities often simply don't do anything. You might make reports, follow the law, but nothing happens. There is a certain naivety here. For situations I have personally been aware of it is quite discouraging to watch this happen and realise you can do nothing, and neither can anyone else.

[ken_sylvania]

Sure they can. You either agree to be a mandatory reporter, or else you're in violation of the law.

That is false.

As far as I see it, there are two options:

- Agree to engage in mandatory reporting, and be in compliance with the law.

- Don't do mandatory reporting, and be in noncompliance with the law.

Is there some third option I am missing?

Yes. The law states who is a mandatory reporter - whether that person agrees or disagrees, if the law says they are a mandatory reporter, that is what they are.
Unless and until a mandatory reporter becomes aware of a situation that is required to be reported, he has no obligation to report, and therefore failing to report is not a violation of any law. No matter how much he objects to mandatory reporting, a violation only arises once he chooses to not report something he is obligated to report.

[ohio jones]

The other problem is the authorities often simply don't do anything. You might make reports, follow the law, but nothing happens. There is a certain naivety here. For situations I have personally been aware of it is quite discouraging to watch this happen and realise you can do nothing, and neither can anyone else.

The thread title asks "What are churches doing to stop predators in the church?" Reporting to the civil authorities is one half of the answer. As Schleitheim says, they have the Sword; the church has the Ban, and that is the church's tool to use with unrepentant predators. It is not "nothing."

[JohnH]

Yes. The law states who is a mandatory reporter - whether that person agrees or disagrees, if the law says they are a mandatory reporter, that is what they are.

Well, there is an option to not be one which is to exit the position that requires you to be one.

Unless and until a mandatory reporter becomes aware of a situation that is required to be reported, he has no obligation to report, and therefore failing to report is not a violation of any law. No matter how much he objects to mandatory reporting, a violation only arises once he chooses to not report something he is obligated to report.

Nonetheless, this requires ministers (in particular) to conduct investigations when they are possibly becoming aware of a situation. It is not a trivial thing. Overall, I object to requiring ministers to becoming effectively agents of the state. I believe that voluntarily encouraging ministers and churches to do this would be far more effective, and also wouldn't turn ministers into de facto frontline cops.

Sound legal advice for anyone who is concerned they might possibly be in a situation which would require being reported (regardless of their own innocence or guilt) would be to never talk to a minister about such a situation. Real cops at least give you a Miranda warning first.

[JohnH]

Let's look at a real-life scenario, with details change to protect the innocent and the guilty.

A family has some kind of problem (not child sexual abuse, but something else that requires mandatory reporting). One or both of the parents may be feeble-minded. An example of such a problem could be an extremely untidy house resulting in things that might meet the threshold of neglect like repeated lice and reports of children missing consecutive meals.

Eventually, the ministers notice the problem or else one of the parents talks to a minister and now the minister 100% is aware of the situation, and may be required to report it. It is unclear if it meets the bar for something that needs to be reported, but we all err on the side of caution now.

CPS has to get involved and due to the vague nature of the report, over-reacts and places the children in foster care, disrupts their schooling due to the foster being too far away, and severely disrupts the family.

CPS further investigates and decides the children go back into the home. The original problem is not corrected, no charges are filed, and CPS considered the matter closed.

The family continues to struggle. There may be excessive discipline that could possibly meet the bar to need to be reported. Minister learns about it, reports again. CPS briefly investigates (by which I mean they conduct a 10-minute phone call with one of the parents), also does nothing. Since they have already been in the home once, they aren't required to do another home visit or investigate any further.

Yet more problems emerge. CPS informs the ministerial staff that they don't need to make any further reports, as if the family is on some kind of "permanent" report. (This seemed legally dubious to me, and as far as I know the ministers just kept dutifully reporting whenever they learned about something that might meet the threshold.)

Anyone else who is a mandatory reporter wants to avoid this family, since they are now a minefield, and also the children perceive the staff as untrustworthy since they learned that they got removed from their home & school because a minister called the police on them. The children are adolescents now and have a complete distrust of ministers due to this.

None of the original problems seem to have been fixed and in fact may be now worse.

I would estimate that a typical plain Mennonite church has 15-20% of families who would have something going on that meets a reportable threshold (not CSA), so for those who are merrily proclaiming how important it is to comply with the law, it may be important to pause and consider if having 15-20% of the children in a congregation bounced into foster care is really the best outcome.