Speeding - Willful Disobedience ?

[Sudsy]

Can you give an example of a bible teaching where there is conflict in obeying both the letter and spirit of the thing? Is the conflict between the letter law and the spirit of the law, or is it a conflict because the spirit of the person?

“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. - Luke 14:26

The letter reads 'hate' whereas some say the spirit means 'not ready to abandon'.

[Neto]

Can you give an example of a bible teaching where there is conflict in obeying both the letter and spirit of the thing? Is the conflict between the letter law and the spirit of the law, or is it a conflict because the spirit of the person?

“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. - Luke 14:26

The letter reads 'hate' whereas some say the spirit means 'not ready to abandon'.

My personal opinion is that 'hate' is a poor translation. (And no, I'm not just bashing the KJV, as the fact is that the version I use, NIV, makes the same word choice.) Literal, yes, but translating it that way in other languages does not take into consideration the linguistic characteristics of the source language (Greek), and possibly also of the language from which the utterance was translated before it was written by Luke (Hebrew or Aramaic).

Take an example from Banawa. In our translation we said something like "Like/Love your family members only a little. Only me should you like a very, very much." It is a comparison, and the limitations of expression, or possibly as a way to really emphasize what he was saying, the word meaning the opposite (hate) is used in the original Greek text. Here's an unrelated example from Banawa. They distinguished between people (outsiders) with the same name by some characteristic, often a physical one. So there was 'Big Ricardo', and 'Tall Ricardo', who was, incidentally, probably the tallest person any of them had ever seen, until a guy named Brian came with us to the village. He was there long enough that he got his own name. He was a wood worker, a real craftsman by outside standards, but since they couldn't pronounce 'Brian', he got the name "Kakiro", which is a type of beetle that bores into trees. (This guy made a lot of sawdust, so hence the connection.) Anyway, the Indian men told me once. "'Tall Ricardo' is not really tall, only 'Kikiro' is REALLY tall." They do not have comparative language like modifications of a word like 'tall' to make a word that means 'taller'.

[Swiss Bro]

Sorry I should of clarified. Spain and Portugal is where I saw this the most. Somewhat in Ireland as well but obviously there it was hogging the right lane that was the problem. The only other country I have personally driven much in was France but mainly on two lane roads or very heavy traffic four lane roads. The other European countries I have driven in were mostly in the back of a bus where it was harder for me to observe what the traffic patterns were. But Spain in particular we drove around the circumference of the whole country and 130 was the standard speed limit in most places and people were extremely good at moving out of the left lane. We saw very few people driving much over 130 but the one or two times we saw people not getting over fast enough almost always resulted in a horn blast.

I see. Yes, the people south of the alps have hotter blood than us in the north. In Switzerland you will find many people that drive exactly the speed limit or below that. They also love to stay on the left and drive the exactly the allowed speed as displayed on their speedometer even if that speedometer is actually showing 5km/h more than they actually drive. They want to teach those who would like to pass a lesson and teach them not to speed. As in Switzerland, passing on the right is not allowed, you can either just stay stuck behind them or pass on the right and risk a hefty fine and probably withdrawal of the drivers license if you get caught. As you can see, I am not one of those who always keeps the speed limit but this thread has made me consider my driving style, honestly.

[Sudsy]

Can you give an example of a bible teaching where there is conflict in obeying both the letter and spirit of the thing? Is the conflict between the letter law and the spirit of the law, or is it a conflict because the spirit of the person?

“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. - Luke 14:26

The letter reads 'hate' whereas some say the spirit means 'not ready to abandon'.

My personal opinion is that 'hate' is a poor translation. (And no, I'm not just bashing the KJV, as the fact is that the version I use, NIV, makes the same word choice.) Literal, yes, but translating it that way in other languages does not take into consideration the linguistic characteristics of the source language (Greek), and possibly also of the language from which the utterance was translated before it was written by Luke (Hebrew or Aramaic).

Take an example from Banawa. In our translation we said something like "Like/Love your family members only a little. Only me should you like a very, very much." It is a comparison, and the limitations of expression, or possibly as a way to really emphasize what he was saying, the word meaning the opposite (hate) is used in the original Greek text. Here's an unrelated example from Banawa. They distinguished between people (outsiders) with the same name by some characteristic, often a physical one. So there was 'Big Ricardo', and 'Tall Ricardo', who was, incidentally, probably the tallest person any of them had ever seen, until a guy named Brian came with us to the village. He was there long enough that he got his own name. He was a wood worker, a real craftsman by outside standards, but since they couldn't pronounce 'Brian', he got the name "Kakiro", which is a type of beetle that bores into trees. (This guy made a lot of sawdust, so hence the connection.) Anyway, the Indian men told me once. "'Tall Ricardo' is not really tall, only 'Kikiro' is REALLY tall." They do not have comparative language like modifications of a word like 'tall' to make a word that means 'taller'.

Looking at the versions in biblehub, 25 use the word 'hate' and only 4 use other phrases. You know far more than I do or ever will on translating but my guess is the word 'hate' might also be possibly used as hyperbole (exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally). Some other possible uses of hyperbole not to be taken literally -

“You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.” (Matt. 23:24, NIV)
“Everything is possible for him who believes.” (Mark 9:23b, NIV)
“If thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out…” Matt. 5:29
“The rock poured me out rivers of oil.” Job 29:6
“The cities are great, and walled up to heaven.” Deut. 1:28
“Everyone could sling stones at a hair and not miss.” Judges 20:16

Interesting how doctrines have been built on some of these like the Mark 9:23 text used by the Word/Faith Movement.

[Josh]

Two whole pages of comments and no one has yet answered my question. Nice, straight, four lane road, light traffic; how fast do you drive then? The silence is deafening.

The posted limit.

In Australia, 0 km/h. In America, 5-10 over, unless nobody else is going that fast. Usually right past lots of cops.

In Kansas my travelling companions generally complain “you can go a lot faster in Kansas”, 15 mph over seems to be the custom.

[RZehr]

Might also depend on the drivers color of skin, volume of music, and condition/model/age of car.

[KirkDaniel]

Might also depend on the drivers color of skin, volume of music, and condition/model/age of car.

Yes, because white people are notorious speeders. Particularly white males, but a goodly number of white females have lead feet, too. Volume of music and type of car notwithstanding.

[KirkDaniel]

How can anyone sit piously among the holy on Sunday mornings, knowing they have drive +2 over the posted limit on the way?

Folks have no consciences these days.

[ohio jones]

How can anyone sit piously among the holy on Sunday mornings, knowing they have drive +2 over the posted limit on the way?

Folks have no consciences these days.

That's exactly why I walk to church.

Well, unless it's raining or has recently snowed, or is below zero. Or unless El Bajo is going along, since he's rather bulky to carry. But even then it's such a short distance there's no way I could exceed the speed limit even it was possible to achieve an instantaneous velocity of 100 mph.

[Wade]

Two whole pages of comments and no one has yet answered my question. Nice, straight, four lane road, light traffic; how fast do you drive then? The silence is deafening.

The posted limit.

In Australia, 0 km/h. In America, 5-10 over, unless nobody else is going that fast. Usually right past lots of cops.

In Kansas my travelling companions generally complain “you can go a lot faster in Kansas”, 15 mph over seems to be the custom.

That might work most of the time but I'm not sure that would work with a judge or Judge if a pedestrian or child was killed and it could have been avoided if the driver was doing the speed limit...?