Progressive Conservative Mennonite Churches

[HondurasKeiser]

Last question, and this is for anyone. I remember back in the late 90's or early 2000's Lancaster hosted a series of listening sessions with the Bishops to take the temperature in the conference over joining MCUSA. At the time Enos Daniel Martin was a bishop I think from the Elizabethtown District and I remember him as one of the opponents of the merger. He was, as I remember, very open to the evangelical-charismatic wing of the conference. There were a number of leaders in the conference like this at the time, theologically conservative and thus opposed to the merger for theological reasons but also dissatisfied with the conference for being too 'Mennonite', legalistic, culture-bound, etc. Henry & Millie Buckwalter were another couple of this stripe that eventually left with a group of congregations to form the Harvest Fellowship of Churches.

I remember sometime in the early 2000's then, Enos Martin, now formerly of LMC, was invited to our church's weekend retreat as the speaker/teacher and low-key encouraging us to leave the conference and join his group. At the time I thought he was one of the founders of AMEC but when I look at their page on GAMEO I don't see his name mentioned. Moreover, an internet search of him reveals that he's a leader in New Testament Fellowship, which what that is exactly, I cannot tell.

I am just curious as to the circumstances under which, Bishop Martin left the conference, and which group he joined.

[Josh]

What's the relationship of Good News Fellowship to these groups?

[ohio jones]

I'd forgotten how familiar you are with that area and group of people. I have another query for you then. I remember that when I was teaching in the area there was some controversy over at the Conestoga congregation over the issue of continued membership in MCUSA. A group under the leadership of Alvin Horning and _____ Petersheim (blanking on his first name), left there and formed Grace & Truth Fellowship and were thus one of the signatory congregations to the new AMEC group. When looking at the AMEC website now though I notice that Grace & Truth is no longer a constituent member and the congregation website states that they're independent. Do you happen to know under what circumstances that group left AMEC?

Arnold, I think.

I believe G&T was formed around 2008 (give or take a year or two), well after AMEC began in 2002. Rockville was one of the founders of AMEC, however. G&T might well have explored joining AMEC, but I hadn't heard that they did; my impression was they were always independent.

Prior to G&T's departure, Conestoga Mennonite Church (CMC) had explored changing affiliations to the conference formerly known as CMC. The congregational vote was more than 50%, but less than the supermajority (2/3 or 3/4?) required to implement the change, which certainly seemed to signal a lack of unity. I don't know whether that move would have prevented the split or merely delayed it; I think there were differences that would have come to a point sooner or later.

[HondurasKeiser]

I'd forgotten how familiar you are with that area and group of people. I have another query for you then. I remember that when I was teaching in the area there was some controversy over at the Conestoga congregation over the issue of continued membership in MCUSA. A group under the leadership of Alvin Horning and _____ Petersheim (blanking on his first name), left there and formed Grace & Truth Fellowship and were thus one of the signatory congregations to the new AMEC group. When looking at the AMEC website now though I notice that Grace & Truth is no longer a constituent member and the congregation website states that they're independent. Do you happen to know under what circumstances that group left AMEC?

Arnold, I think.

I believe G&T was formed around 2008 (give or take a year or two), well after AMEC began in 2002. Rockville was one of the founders of AMEC, however. G&T might well have explored joining AMEC, but I hadn't heard that they did; my impression was they were always independent.

Prior to G&T's departure, Conestoga Mennonite Church (CMC) had explored changing affiliations to the conference formerly known as CMC. The congregational vote was more than 50%, but less than the supermajority (2/3 or 3/4?) required to implement the change, which certainly seemed to signal a lack of unity. I don't know whether that move would have prevented the split or merely delayed it; I think there were differences that would have come to a point sooner or later.

Has Conestoga since joined CMC or are they still part of the ACC?

[Josh]

Prior to G&T's departure, Conestoga Mennonite Church (CMC) had explored changing affiliations to the conference formerly known as CMC.

I was under the impression that the network formerly known as CMC, which as formerly known as the CAMC, was non-conference. Perhaps a more accurate term would be "the non-conference formerly known as CMC, despite the C"?

[ohio jones]

Has Conestoga since joined CMC or are they still part of the ACC?

They remain in ACC. After the departure of G&T there was no interest in changing affiliation.

[ohio jones]

Prior to G&T's departure, Conestoga Mennonite Church (CMC) had explored changing affiliations to the conference formerly known as CMC.

I was under the impression that the network formerly known as CMC, which as formerly known as the CAMC, was non-conference. Perhaps a more accurate term would be "the non-conference formerly known as CMC, despite the C"?

That depends on the definition of "conference." I'm not sure why they would be considered non-conference, but there are differences in organization and structure compared to LMC or other historic MC conferences.

[Josh]

That depends on the definition of "conference." I'm not sure why they would be considered non-conference, but there are differences in organization and structure compared to LMC or other historic MC conferences.

Well, let's keep in mind that the Mennonite term "conference structure" has nothing to do with actually holding conferences, which the network formerly known as CMC did.

My impression of the network formerly known as CMC polity and ecclesiology is that it does not have a presbyterian or episcopal structure, as one finds in "conference" churches like German Baptist Brethren, Church of the Brethren, Lancaster Conference, and so forth.

[ohio jones]

That depends on the definition of "conference." I'm not sure why they would be considered non-conference, but there are differences in organization and structure compared to LMC or other historic MC conferences.

Well, let's keep in mind that the Mennonite term "conference structure" has nothing to do with actually holding conferences, which the network formerly known as CMC did.

My impression of the network formerly known as CMC polity and ecclesiology is that it does not have a presbyterian or episcopal structure, as one finds in "conference" churches like German Baptist Brethren, Church of the Brethren, Lancaster Conference, and so forth.

Yes, the structure recognizes the congregation rather than the denomination as the primary locus of authority, and in that respect we may be more of an alliance than BMA is (and they are probably more of a conference than we are). But "alliance" has some political/militaristic overtones, so "network" may be rather accurate despite its trendiness.

On the other hand, "conference" is related to "conferring" which we have engaged in from the beginning. And that beginning was at a time when "conference" was in the name of pretty much any non-OO group of Mennonites, regardless of organizational structure.

In any event, I've mostly heard the term "non-conference" applied to churches who withdrew from a conference and remained unaffiliated or had informal relationships with other un-conferenced or de-conferenced congregations. This may be why I dissent from applying the label to a group of churches that are definitely affiliated with each other.

[Josh]

I asked some people in a "conference" type of church when their conference was, and they responded they weren't aware of a gathering such as would be called a conference. "The conference" to them simply meant "all of our bishops".

Likewise, when I was part of a non-conference Beachy church we held "conference" to which all of us went, plus many other interested people. I would note that the Nationwide conference was careful to not call itself such a thing, instead calling itself "Bible fellowship meetings".

My own church doesn't think of itself as having a "conference structure" but does have a General Conference, even though we are neither General Conference Mennonites and we are not part of the old Mennonite Church General Conference either. Nowadays, people say "the conference" to mean "all of the membership", such as "that new style of sweater is spreading to the entire conference".