paulyoder wrote:Is it a secretive, shame-based society?
I just joined this forum about a week ago and everywhere I look people are hiding behind fake usernames and avatars, not the normal thing for discussion forums that I participate in.
And since you joined MN, I keep getting this Facebook friend suggestion about a guy with your name and photo. Big tech knows who we all are and what we're doing. Feel free to PM if interested in a real identity.
When I was age 6, I lied to my schoolteacher. I lived my childhood with this on my conscience. I was terrified that I would get a spanking if I confessed it. Getting a spanking would have been a much lighter punishment than living with a violated conscience. But that’s how a shame-based culture can enslave someone.
QuietObserver wrote:When I was age 6, I lied to my schoolteacher. I lived my childhood with this on my conscience. I was terrified that I would get a spanking if I confessed it. Getting a spanking would have been a much lighter punishment than living with a violated conscience. But that’s how a shame-based culture can enslave someone.
For all the criticism conservative Anabaptists get for not reporting sexual crimes to the police, it is true that the shame associated with such offenses in CA churches follows one throughout life at tremendous social costs. In a way, it is its own sort of prison even if the offender is never locked up, or once he is released. My father has an acquaintance who is Amish and served a 10-year sentence for child sexual abuse. He has never been fully accepted back into the community even though he is technically a member; his wife completely rejects him although they live under the same roof; because of his age and background it is nearly impossible for him to find work. He is destitute.
paulyoder wrote:Is it a secretive, shame-based society?
I just joined this forum about a week ago and everywhere I look people are hiding behind fake usernames and avatars, not the normal thing for discussion forums that I participate in.
Feel free to PM me as well. There is a very good reason why I do not put my name out front on this forum but I will gladly let you know who I am by PM if you wish.
RZehr wrote:Sidestep question: Are you suggesting that somehow that a no-shame culture is better than a shame culture? It is bandied about as something to be ashamed of, even given a shameful name.Shame is right and good. If there was more shame, we probably wouldn't be having a Pride month.
I’m using the terms sociologists use to describe Shame vs Guilt vs Fear based cultures.
QuietObserver wrote:When I was age 6, I lied to my schoolteacher. I lived my childhood with this on my conscience. I was terrified that I would get a spanking if I confessed it. Getting a spanking would have been a much lighter punishment than living with a violated conscience. But that’s how a shame-based culture can enslave someone.
Was your experience because of a shame-based culture, or a culture that believed in consequences?
Would it have been better for you not to have expected any consequences for wrongdoing?
I don't think people are posting anonymously here for shame or anything like that. It's just that the AB and Mennonite communities can be pretty small and people get tired of being pigeonholed by where they come from, who their family is, and so forth, and then having their motives and opinions second-guessed. Something called "The Mennonite Game." "Oh, his brother is "so and so," and he married into "that" family and they used to attend "that" church but we aren't so sure anymore. So OBVIOUSLY we know where HE is coming from on this subject.
I just find that tiresome. And I'd rather have my words just stand for what they are and not have people try to discern motives from my last name, who my parents are, who I married, what church I attend or don't attend, etc. If you read the comments about Trudy Metzger you find a lot of people trying to discern or question her motives based her history, whether or not she still attends a certain church or has certain beliefs. Rather than just reading what she writes. That's an example of what I'm talking about.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
QuietObserver wrote:When I was age 6, I lied to my schoolteacher. I lived my childhood with this on my conscience. I was terrified that I would get a spanking if I confessed it. Getting a spanking would have been a much lighter punishment than living with a violated conscience. But that’s how a shame-based culture can enslave someone.
Was your experience because of a shame-based culture, or a culture that believed in consequences?
Would it have been better for you not to have expected any consequences for wrongdoing?
I think we're getting a bit off kilter here. This article explains the differences well.
Generally, Christianity has been credited with the transition from a shame culture to a guilt on. Understanding the differences between these is an important part of the training many missionaries receive. If you'd like to understand your own culture, there's a good online survey at http://TheCultureTest.com.
Incidentally, I filled it out for myself based on how Holdeman culture seems to me and it had this result:
Your Group's Culture Type is:
52.0% GUILT 44.0% SHAME 4.0% FEAR
Interesting.
My quiz based on my Mennonite culture, said 68% Guilt, 28% Shame, 4% Fear.
So now my question is, who decided that we have a “Shame” culture, was it outsiders looking on deciding that, or insiders?
Feel free to PM if interested in a real identity.