Anabaptist Sex Offender Watch List

[temporal1]

Josh:
.. We need as much information as possible, other than naming and shaming victims themselves, and only because that serves no purpose of reconciliation and restoration. ..

i would like to add, their names ARE important! but, not important in ways to be made public.
This is the primary place that great discretion is important.
Hopefully, this is where TRUST can be that direct victims are being identified and ministered to.

This ^^ is the place to FIRST implement those graces (abundantly extended to perpetrators).

Perpetrators must first face the justice system, this is not in control of the church and Christians,
at that point, efforts can begin toward rehabilitation and restoration of souls.

i believe in Christ-like preemptive forgiveness. a beautiful thing.

that does not mean preemptively skirting earthly government justice.
it also does not mean allowing psychopaths to play Christians for fools while they victimize the vulnerable for years on end, causing untold harm to direct and indirect victims.

i don’t think for one moment there is real disagreement.

i just want to put added emphasis on the direct victims.
indirect victims have ways+means to be heard! this forum is one place they are being heard.

for better+worse, direct victims are pretty much silenced.
this is a weak point. deserving sensitive thoughts and actions.

[Grace]

Trudy also added this on Facebook.
"People are asking who is uttering the death threats. If that was information that was safe to share, I would share it. I have added "not by missionaries" to make it clear. Beyond that I cannot give information."

If parts of the information cannot be given, why give any of it?

Grace, your attitude so far is that no information should ever be given. Your approach to these things has led to the disgrace of CAM, massive financial losses form CAM, and to hundreds of victims being abused over the course of decades.

We need as much information as possible, other than naming and shaming victims themselves, and only because that serves no purpose of reconciliation and restoration.

The question needs to be asked why you prefer to keep things in the dark.

What you are saying is NOT true and a false accusation. I believe that information of misconduct/crimes, whether it is sexual or otherwise, needs to be revealed and not kept in the dark. I also believe that information needs to be verified and sourced to have any credibility. Trudy is very biased and many times (not always) her blog reads like a tabloid that glories in dropping dramatic bombshells with no verification or sources given.

In reporting on this issue, Trudy at times (not always) is using unethical, immoral methods to accomplish a purpose. Does the end justify the means? Should choosing unethical means to accomplish a purpose be acceptable? If an innocent person’s name is ruined, by slinging their name out there, without verifiable sources, just collateral damage in her mind? Is airing her unverified findings part of the solution, or making it worse? These are questions each person needs to answer in their own hearts and minds.

[temporal1]

Whistleblowers have a rough time. It goes with the territory.
Hopefully, when they are serving God’s purposes, they will have peace in time; they may be fully vindicated and appreciated, in their lifetime.

To get there takes time, patience, often costs “unfair” hurt and suffering.
Jesus offers His Armor for the battle.

[Grace]

Whistleblowers have a rough time. It goes with the territory.
Hopefully, when they are serving God’s purposes, they will have peace in time; they may be fully vindicated and appreciated, in their lifetime.

To get there takes time, patience, often costs “unfair” hurt and suffering.
Jesus offers His Armor for the battle.

I agree. However, ask yourself the question, was time and patience granted CAM in this past week when unverified accusations were hurled at them by many people? I have believed and still believe they will do the right thing and through that, will be vindicated. God is more powerful than the weapons of darkness against them.

[joshuabgood]

Whistleblowers have a rough time. It goes with the territory.
Hopefully, when they are serving God’s purposes, they will have peace in time; they may be fully vindicated and appreciated, in their lifetime.

To get there takes time, patience, often costs “unfair” hurt and suffering.
Jesus offers His Armor for the battle.

I agree. However, ask yourself the question, was time and patience granted CAM in this past week when unverified accusations were hurled at them by many people? I have believed and still believe they will do the right thing and through that, will be vindicated. God is more powerful than the weapons of darkness against them.

I hear what you are saying Grace. But I would add to it. That this chain of events really started in early May. We are now in the middle of June. And it wasn't until the public pressure of the last week (that any statement was issued) or that CAM acknowledged key leaders knew and that those leaders will be placed on leave/suspended. This represents I think that CAM shifted their position as a result of public pressure. In their langauge, "We have come to mutually recognize" that the two key leaders need to step down.

The truth is that that knowledge and that action doesn't take 6 weeks to figure out. More like 24-48 hours...six days at the most. So I think the preponderance of evidence does suggest that the public pressure of the past week was necessary to get a shift in course from CAM.

All that said, I applaud them for that shift. They listened.

[Neto]

This may not be the best place to put this, but I don't wish to start a new thread for it.

Strategies to Protect Children & Child Ministry Workers:

In thinking of this, the so-called "Billy Graham Rule" comes to mind, where his strict policy was that he would never be alone with a woman other than his wife. I don't know if it came from him, but in the Bible college Pastoral Ministries course I took before missionary service, we were advised the same way.

So I'm thinking about young men who work with troubled boys in the three boys' camps that our congregation supports. When I started on our congregational missions committee, we resolved to visit as many of our ministry workers as possible. We only got to one place, Bald Eagle Boys' Camp, where a single man from our congregation was serving. I think that all of these ministries operate the same - there is one adult in each cabin group. When I was just out of my first year of college I was a counselor at the Southern District Mennonite Brethren youth camp. I was the only adult in the cabin with a group of boys. Most were "church kids", but at least one was basically a street kid from a big city in Kansas. While I was still in HS, I had been a counselor in a camp for 5-6 grade boys, and there was an older man with me in the cabin with them.

So here's the question: Would it not be wise, in order to protect the boys in these camp programs, who are already from trouble home environments, and also to protect the camp workers from false accusations, to have two workers with every group? But where will these ministries find all of these additional workers? Will this case now make young men willing to do this ministry even more difficult to find, because they will be placed at risk of false accusations if they serve alone?

[temporal1]

Whistleblowers have a rough time. It goes with the territory.
Hopefully, when they are serving God’s purposes, they will have peace in time; they may be fully vindicated and appreciated, in their lifetime.

To get there takes time, patience, often costs “unfair” hurt and suffering.
Jesus offers His Armor for the battle.

I agree. However, ask yourself the question, was time and patience granted CAM in this past week when unverified accusations were hurled at them by many people? I have believed and still believe they will do the right thing and through that, will be vindicated. God is more powerful than the weapons of darkness against them.

i believe our perceptions are greatly controlled by what we read, and, we are not all reading exactly the same reports and comments.

the internet is new, “we” are still in a primitive state of knowing how to use it.

in my estimation, to date, the internet may be “THE MOST DEMOCRATIC” function ever.
it well reflects how+why pure democracies do NOT work! all-those-voices!

i KNOW there are people out for DESTRUCTION, with a Capital “D.”
i try to ignore them. you know, in the end, anger and bitterness will not win. Jesus promises.

i try to sift-through and find what (i think) will last.

What i most witness is shock and venting. i’m ok with this. How much worse if people were apathetic or uncaring? i find this in the “normal” range of response to horrible crimes against innocent victims.

i also have a perception of years that CAM is a great organization. goodness and greatness, godliness, does not get airtime. we count on it. we take it for granted. we appreciate it. not a lot of discussion on it - esp when compared to scandals.

so, my bottom line is, i pretty much ignore hate on this, i don’t dismiss it, but don’t let it dominate .. outside of that, i see consensus that the direct victims deserve immediate and extended response, and the hope and faith that CAM will survive, and be better for, honestly and tangibly responding to sins and crimes.

there is a difference between those pointing out wrongs with a heart to authentically correct sin, and the fewer who want revenge and destruction. the latter are in need of prayer and healing. they (we) hurt, usually because they (we) are hurting.

does that make sense?


http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1842

[Grace]

i believe our perceptions are greatly controlled by what we read, and, we are not all reading exactly the same reports and comments.

the internet is new, “we” are still in a primitive state of knowing how to use it.

in my estimation, to date, the internet may be “THE MOST DEMOCRATIC” function ever.
it well reflects how+why pure demicracies do NOT work! all-those-voices!

i KNOW there are people out for DESTRUCTION, with a Capital “D.”
i try to ignore them. you know, in the end, anger and bitterness will not win. Jesus promises.

i try to sift-through and find what (i think) will last.

What i most witness is shock and venting. i’m ok with this. How much worse if people were apathetic or uncaring? i find this in the “normal” range of response to horrible crimes against innocent victims.

i also have a perception of years that CAM is a great organization. goodness and greatness, godliness, does not get airtime. we count on it. we take it for granted. we appreciate it. not a lot of discussion on it - esp when compared to scandals.

so, my bottom line is, i pretty much ignore hate on this, i don’t dismiss it, but don’t let it dominate .. outside of that, i see consensus that the direct victims deserve immediate and extended response, and the hope and faith that CAM will survive, and be better for, honestly and tangibly responding to sins and crimes.

there is a difference between those pointing out wrongs with a heart to authentically correct sin, and the fewer who want revenge and destruction. the latter are in need of prayer and healing. they hurt, usually because they are hurting.

does that make sense?

Makes sense and well said. Thanks.

[temporal1]

i believe our perceptions are greatly controlled by what we read, and, we are not all reading exactly the same reports and comments.

the internet is new, “we” are still in a primitive state of knowing how to use it.

in my estimation, to date, the internet may be “THE MOST DEMOCRATIC” function ever.
it well reflects how+why pure demicracies do NOT work! all-those-voices!

i KNOW there are people out for DESTRUCTION, with a Capital “D.”
i try to ignore them. you know, in the end, anger and bitterness will not win. Jesus promises.

i try to sift-through and find what (i think) will last.

What i most witness is shock and venting. i’m ok with this. How much worse if people were apathetic or uncaring? i find this in the “normal” range of response to horrible crimes against innocent victims.

i also have a perception of years that CAM is a great organization. goodness and greatness, godliness, does not get airtime. we count on it. we take it for granted. we appreciate it. not a lot of discussion on it - esp when compared to scandals.

so, my bottom line is, i pretty much ignore hate on this, i don’t dismiss it, but don’t let it dominate .. outside of that, i see consensus that the direct victims deserve immediate and extended response, and the hope and faith that CAM will survive, and be better for, honestly and tangibly responding to sins and crimes.

there is a difference between those pointing out wrongs with a heart to authentically correct sin, and the fewer who want revenge and destruction. the latter are in need of prayer and healing. they hurt, usually because they are hurting.

does that make sense?

Makes sense and well said. Thanks.

This means a lot to me. thank you.
Now, if folks here knew what i REALLY need to be doing today,
everyone would be screaming, “GO! GO!” - “You foolish one.”

[Hats Off]

This may not be the best place to put this, but I don't wish to start a new thread for it.

Strategies to Protect Children & Child Ministry Workers:

So here's the question: Would it not be wise, in order to protect the boys in these camp programs, who are already from trouble home environments, and also to protect the camp workers from false accusations, to have two workers with every group? But where will these ministries find all of these additional workers? Will this case now make young men willing to do this ministry even more difficult to find, because they will be placed at risk of false accusations if they serve alone?

Having worked at a summer Bible camp for over 10 years as a bookkeeper, I have observed some of their ways of working. This camp is run by a group of Bible Chapels, similar to Plymouth Brethern. When they have children's overnight camps, they always have two older counsellors in every cabin. If they have 8 - 12 year old children, the counsellors may be 14 to 16 or older. This certainly gives the camp as well as the counsellors and the children added protection.

The second person may be a younger person or less experienced. He/she could be there just as an additional observer with most of the responsibilities going to the senior person. This would help protect the senior person while training the younger person to take on more responsibilities.