CAM Molestation Issue

[Sienna]

Sometimes, if a non-profit organization sends a "mission" worker who is a child rapist to oversee a food program, and that worker refuses food to hungry children who didn't want to be raped, and the leader of that organization is making three figures, there aren't any words.

CEO is making six figures.

Yes, thats what it was supposed to say. Thanks for the correction.

[Sienna]

Thanks, Josh, for that information. That is more likely to prevent me from contributing financially to CAM than all these other issues. By worldly standards that is not a large compensation. But when I consider all the unpaid volunteers and those who give faithfully of the little they have, it seems obscene to me. Are there really no good and capable men who would oversee this organization for less? I am sure he must be paid all kinds of travel and meeting expenses in addition to the salary.

Of all the reasons to not support CAM, this should not even register on the radar screen. It's a very modest compensation package. Josh offers additional details as to why it's also the right thing to do.

I am also unsure what paying his job related expenses has to do with this. That's not compensation.

I respectfully disagree with "ragpicker." Moreover, I am personally acquainted with individuals in the area of the main offices in Holmes County who were involved with CAM high levels of organizational and left CAM long ago due to integrity levels at the high levels. Yet, the main individual still remains in charge. These individuals who left have high levels of integrity in their own businesses and are very respected in their local community. This does register, as it well should.

[Sienna]

I too understand what Hats Off and others are saying. These are legitimate considerations. And I have no doubt that CAM wrestles with this exact same conversation. They probably have within their leadership people representing both sides of this compensations conversation, and they probably arrived at this number carefully. They probably have people thinking it is still to low, and some thinking it is to high.

As far as not wanting donations to go to them because of high wages, I think we should really think about how much of my donation is actually affecting the cause. What if the next organization pays their top earner only $24,000 but other inefficiencies eat up more? But yes, there is a point where I (all of us) would feel that someone is overpaid.

I don't think that they are being paid to much, and while I don't know what their foreign missionaries are paid, I was at one of the missions this spring when a couple of their top guys happened to visit. I wasn't in the meetings, but I do know that one of the things they asked was whether the missionaries were able to pay their expenses on their salaries, and if they needed more etc. So I know they are not trying to skin the volunteers in order to save money. I got the feeling that they do think about these things, they do care about their people.

At first I wanted to be all upset that David Troyer is paid over 100,000 a year. Then I went to Charity Watch and compared some charities with similar budgets as CAM and realized that most CEO's get 200,000 or more. There were a couple of charities who had $0 listed for the CEO but I didn't examine them to see whether or not their CEO's have another job outside of the charity.
I understand why some people are uncomfortable with the amount of money that top CAM people are paid. I grew up in a family that lived below the poverty level so when I compare 8 people living on 35,000 or less per year to the salaries that the top people at CAM get then it does seem like they're paid a lot of money.

Does anyone know what their foreign missionaries get paid? I think someone on Facebook said CAM pays better than other charities.

But since when are conservative Anabaptists like their other Christian contemporaries? The premise of conservative Anabaptism is that we live "simply" and "plain." If this principle is good for clothing, why is it not good for income and lifestyle?

Isn't the real question most of us are asking is how someone can make this amount and run such a shoddy high-level leadership team that they sent a predator onto the field in the first place then covered it up in the second place, then put out a misleading statement in the third place? Is there really any organization that pays the top leader six figures, even in the secular world, whose board would permit that leader to continue if this happened?

[Sienna]

Sometimes, if a non-profit organization sends a "mission" worker who is a child rapist to oversee a food program, and that worker refuses food to hungry children who didn't want to be raped, and the leader of that organization is making six [edit] figures, there aren't any words.

[KirkDaniel]

Sometimes, if a non-profit organization sends a "mission" worker who is a child rapist to oversee a food program, and that worker refuses food to hungry children who didn't want to be raped, and the leader of that organization is making three figures, there aren't any words.

CEO is making six figures.

Yes, thats what it was supposed to say. Thanks for the correction.

I still say, Ooooooooo. Ouch.

[Joy]

CEO is making six figures.

Yes, thats what it was supposed to say. Thanks for the correction.

I still say, Ooooooooo. Ouch.

We knew what you meant, anyway, Sienna.

[ragpicker]

Thanks, Josh, for that information. That is more likely to prevent me from contributing financially to CAM than all these other issues. By worldly standards that is not a large compensation. But when I consider all the unpaid volunteers and those who give faithfully of the little they have, it seems obscene to me. Are there really no good and capable men who would oversee this organization for less? I am sure he must be paid all kinds of travel and meeting expenses in addition to the salary.

Of all the reasons to not support CAM, this should not even register on the radar screen. It's a very modest compensation package. Josh offers additional details as to why it's also the right thing to do.

I am also unsure what paying his job related expenses has to do with this. That's not compensation.

I respectfully disagree with "ragpicker." Moreover, I am personally acquainted with individuals in the area of the main offices in Holmes County who were involved with CAM high levels of organizational and left CAM long ago due to integrity levels at the high levels. Yet, the main individual still remains in charge. These individuals who left have high levels of integrity in their own businesses and are very respected in their local community. This does register, as it well should.

I appreciate your being respectful. That’s well appreciated. But I’m a bit confused. I was talking about the compensation package being fair or not for that position in that type and size of organization. What I hear you addressing is the integrity of the individuals in that position, which is a completely separate issue. Am I missing something?

To clarify, I offer two questions.

1. Is that compensation fair and wise for that position in that type and size of an organization?

My answer was yes.

2. Should the specific individual in that position actually be in the position?

Your answer is no. Based on my understandings at this point, I concur.

Side note: I’ve long been a supporter of much of what CAM does. I’ve been less impressed with other aspects of the organization. So my confirmation bias would be to have my queasiness confirmed by the flood of accusations and rumors and interpretations of actual facts. But I won’t knowingly participate in a mob, etc. I want rational, thorough investigations, and then appropriate consequences and decisions for all malfeasance, from JM, all the way up though the organization to the very top, let the chips fall where they may. The most effective way to surgically remove cancer is with thoughtful precision and accuracy. Asking for precision and accuracy should never be construed as trying to protect the cancer. It just means I want the cancer dealt with as effectively and thoroughly as possible. Now I’m going to say something else. The cancer in this situation is far more than the issue at hand, or even the organization under scrutiny. The entire body is riddled with multiple types of cancers. These cancers are dependent on each other. If you go after one and ignore the rest, the body is still riddled with cancer and you’ll never eradicate the one you’re targeting.

Well, I probably just angered 99% of the spectrum from those who blindly support CAM and their supporting culture to those are consumed with anger at CAM. I’m gonna post it anyways. It is what it is, and it might spark useful thinking in a reader.

[steve-in-kville]

To clarify, I offer two questions.

1. Is that compensation fair and wise for that position in that type and size of an organization?

My answer was yes.

2. Should the specific individual in that position actually be in the position?

Your answer is no. Based on my understandings at this point, I concur.

I would agree on both points. In my opinion, a thorough house cleaning is in order.

I've been keeping a bit of a distance from this subject as of late, as it has really worn me down. Knowing what I know, CAM has two clear choices:

a) litigate and salvage their assets.

b) clean house, make good on the victims, and salvage their reputation.

I see no middle ground.

[Neto]

In respect to whether business expenses are considered a part of "compensation", just a bit of an aside here. My wife & I did field work under Wycliffe Bible Translators for 18 years, and all of our ministry expenses came out of our support. That included all travel expenses to & from the village location, medicines we purchased to distribute to the Indians (at no cost to them), flight costs to send people out for medical care when we could not handle a health situation in the village, and any associated costs for their treatment that were not covered by government health programs. (For full information, some medicines were given to us by the government health department, but only a small part overall. To my recollection, the only time any government agency paid for a medical evacuation was when a military helicopter came in & picked up a snake bite victim while our mission plane was in another part of the country.) Our basic support also paid for all printing costs for Scripture books we distributed, basically everything pertaining to the Bible translation project to which we were assigned. I think the most we ever received annually was around $35,000,00.

[Hats Off]

Of all the reasons to not support CAM, this should not even register on the radar screen. It's a very modest compensation package. Josh offers additional details as to why it's also the right thing to do.

I am also unsure what paying his job related expenses has to do with this. That's not compensation.

I respectfully disagree with "ragpicker." Moreover, I am personally acquainted with individuals in the area of the main offices in Holmes County who were involved with CAM high levels of organizational and left CAM long ago due to integrity levels at the high levels. Yet, the main individual still remains in charge. These individuals who left have high levels of integrity in their own businesses and are very respected in their local community. This does register, as it well should.

I appreciate your being respectful. That’s well appreciated. But I’m a bit confused. I was talking about the compensation package being fair or not for that position in that type and size of organization. What I hear you addressing is the integrity of the individuals in that position, which is a completely separate issue. Am I missing something?

To clarify, I offer two questions.

1. Is that compensation fair and wise for that position in that type and size of an organization?

My answer was yes.

2. Should the specific individual in that position actually be in the position?

Your answer is no. Based on my understandings at this point, I concur.

Side note: I’ve long been a supporter of much of what CAM does. I’ve been less impressed with other aspects of the organization. So my confirmation bias would be to have my queasiness confirmed by the flood of accusations and rumors and interpretations of actual facts. But I won’t knowingly participate in a mob, etc. I want rational, thorough investigations, and then appropriate consequences and decisions for all malfeasance, from JM, all the way up though the organization to the very top, let the chips fall where they may. The most effective way to surgically remove cancer is with thoughtful precision and accuracy. Asking for precision and accuracy should never be construed as trying to protect the cancer. It just means I want the cancer dealt with as effectively and thoroughly as possible. Now I’m going to say something else. The cancer in this situation is far more than the issue at hand, or even the organization under scrutiny. The entire body is riddled with multiple types of cancers. These cancers are dependent on each other. If you go after one and ignore the rest, the body is still riddled with cancer and you’ll never eradicate the one you’re targeting.

Well, I probably just angered 99% of the spectrum from those who blindly support CAM and their supporting culture to those are consumed with anger at CAM. I’m gonna post it anyways. It is what it is, and it might spark useful thinking in a reader.

Thanks for posting this. If I am consumed with anything, it is that our culture, along with other churches, has not been more successful in dealing with these kinds of issues. On Saturday evening a JW friend mentioned a case of a JW elder abusing a young boy. Years later, the abused went public with his accusation. He was kicked out but the elder stayed.