CAM, Giving and Financial Integrity

[ken_sylvania]

Wow. I didn't realize so many folks here were secret CAM board members

The specific incident took place nearly 8 years ago. I'm not gonna name names, as the representative from CAM was just the messenger and most likely isn't even involved with CAM anymore. I was asked to provide financial info, on my employer's letterhead, stating something that actually didn't happen to "square the books" for the accountant.

Clear as mud, I know.

Did the representative from CAM who asked know that he was asking you to do something fraudulent?

[Josh]

Wow. I didn't realize so many folks here were secret CAM board members

The specific incident took place nearly 8 years ago. I'm not gonna name names, as the representative from CAM was just the messenger and most likely isn't even involved with CAM anymore. I was asked to provide financial info, on my employer's letterhead, stating something that actually didn't happen to "square the books" for the accountant.

Clear as mud, I know.

Did the representative from CAM who asked know that he was asking you to do something fraudulent?

#1. I have no reason not to believe Steve.

#2. I think Steve knows what he’s talking about and isn’t naive.

This is a serious situation but it’s also quite old. Records may not exist that far back.

Regardless, let’s start from a place of believing Steve and not attacking him.

[ken_sylvania]

Wow. I didn't realize so many folks here were secret CAM board members

The specific incident took place nearly 8 years ago. I'm not gonna name names, as the representative from CAM was just the messenger and most likely isn't even involved with CAM anymore. I was asked to provide financial info, on my employer's letterhead, stating something that actually didn't happen to "square the books" for the accountant.

Clear as mud, I know.

Did the representative from CAM who asked know that he was asking you to do something fraudulent?

#1. I have no reason not to believe Steve.

#2. I think Steve knows what he’s talking about and isn’t naive.

This is a serious situation but it’s also quite old. Records may not exist that far back.

Regardless, let’s start from a place of believing Steve and not attacking him.

I'm sorry if this question comes across as not believing him, or as an attack. How could I word the question better?

[Josh]

Emphasise when talking to a victim or someone reporting something that you believe them and take them seriously.

In this case, I wouldn’t ask him in public, particularly in the context of ragpicker trying to tear down his credibility. Do you really think Steve wants to be interrogated on a public forum?

[GaryK]

Emphasise when talking to a victim or someone reporting something that you believe them and take them seriously.

In this case, I wouldn’t ask him in public, particularly in the context of ragpicker trying to tear down his credibility. Do you really think Steve wants to be interrogated on a public forum?

Not asking him in public seems a little strange to me since the accusation was made in public. Can you explain why the question was inappropriate? FWIW, I do not see RP as trying to tear down his credibility.

[RZehr]

Emphasise when talking to a victim or someone reporting something that you believe them....

I personally have a hard time just believing an account after hearing just one side. If you do that, you are really biased when doing your investigation. I’m not sure that “just believe” is any better than knee jerk unbelief of them. Can’t we withhold judgement until both sides are heard? Is there something wrong with that?

....and take them seriously.

I agree with this.

[ken_sylvania]

Emphasise when talking to a victim or someone reporting something that you believe them and take them seriously.

In this case, I wouldn’t ask him in public, particularly in the context of ragpicker trying to tear down his credibility. Do you really think Steve wants to be interrogated on a public forum?

Ragpicker has not been trying to tear down Steve's credibility.

Anybody who makes a public accusation ought to be willing to answer basic questions about that accusation in the same forum in which the accusation is made. That is part of what makes an accusation credible. Especially in a situation like this where the accusation is being made by a 3rd party, not a victim.

[appleman2006]

I am not saying I do not believe him. Not at all. I do not know him and have no reason to not believe him. But I am with Ragpicker. This obviously still bothers him and is still eating at him. And for that reason he owes to himself if not to CAM to try and expose this.
Several things could come from it.
1. CAM could recognise they made a mistake and do what they need to rectify it.
2. On the off chance they did not make a mistake they would have the opportunity to explain why they acted they way they did. This could also include changing procedures so that misunderstandings or mistakes do not happen like this in the future.
3. Steve could have peace of mind that he has done everything necessary to correct the situations and bring true healing to all.

This may all seem like it is too big a thing and too much work. But starting off with taking it to a local financial expert that you trust and that would also have credibility with CAM will go a long way to making this process much quicker and less onerous on you.

I have made more than my share of mistakes in my life. One of the things I appreciate when I mess up is when people come to me personally and tell me where I failed. There have been times I would not of even been aware of it had someone not taken the time to approach me and so I would not of been able to make it right. I am not saying this is a case like that but I still implore you to at least start the process. You will be a better man for it.

[steve-in-kville]

[I will admit that I find myself baffled. We have a thread with well over 100 pages on the sexual abuse in CAM's organization. But when I recount an experience I had with them involving money (cooking the books?), people loose their minds. Its not an accusation. Its something that actually happened. I was there.

Again, this is why I'm a bit confused... why do we believe 140+ pages on the sexual assaults, but I mention an experience I had from 2013 and all of a sudden I'm making false accusations??

Keep going and have your fun with it. I sit back and watch everyone loose their minds.

[appleman2006]

[I will admit that I find myself baffled. We have a thread with well over 100 pages on the sexual abuse in CAM's organization. But when I recount an experience I had with them involving money (cooking the books?), people loose their minds. Its not an accusation. Its something that actually happened. I was there.

Again, this is why I'm a bit confused... why do we believe 140+ pages on the sexual assaults, but I mention an experience I had from 2013 and all of a sudden I'm making false accusations??

Keep going and have your fun with it. I sit back and watch everyone loose their minds.

Again who said false accusations? Some of us have said that our limited experience has been that CAM has acted financially accountable but that in no way negates your experience anymore than yours does ours. All we are saying is that if you make those accusations publicly that you should also go directly to them preferably with a third party and have them confronted.

The 100 plus pages were about cases where this was and is being done BTW.