CAM Molestation Issue

[Sienna]

I don't like speculating like this about people's motivations. People who don't like Mennonites already will of course believe these kinds of characterizations, when CAM likely responded in a very human if imperfect way. Any of us, Menno or not, may have made the same mistakes. And yes the mistakes must be amended and acknowledged. One could likewise question the motives of those who seize on scandals, speculate about conspiracies, and appear to enjoy seeing terrible things brought to light, but I don't think that is a profitable exercise either.

Amen and amen.

I’ve personally walked the very difficult journey of childhood abuse. I do not for one moment doubt the motives of someone who has walked this path and wants to help others behind them. Having said that, the question about job security leaves me asking if you are saying CAM people would not feel threatened if they believed their job was at stake? Or what are you saying? Most, if not all, people feel some kind of defensiveness if their job is put at risk.

Am I understanding correctly that you are saying many people would have responded to the situation by not turning in a perpetrator of child sexual abuse if they knew it was happening? Or that it was just a “mistake?” Perhaps I’m not understanding what it is you are saying?

[appleman2006]

I think most CAM employees would not feel threatened for themselves. As has been stated elsewhere most CAM employees could get a much better paying job elsewhere tomorrow. Rather I am guessing most feel they are doing profound good for a lot of people and are concerned more about those people if their jobs should disappear than they are for themselves.

[Sienna]

There is absolutely no reason someone under the age of 21 needs a smartphone. I'd argue there's very little reason for one at all that can't be addressed in another way.. I'm 36 and don't have one and get along just fine. My husband, same. If our children have a phone, it will be a shared phone.

And once your children are grown And you are no longer there, what tools are you giving them other than “don’t have one” to effectively combat all they will encounter? I guess I’m of the opinion there has to be more....

[Sienna]

I think most CAM employees would not feel threatened for themselves. As has been stated elsewhere most CAM employees could get a much better paying job elsewhere tomorrow. Rather I am guessing most feel they are doing profound good for a lot of people and are concerned more about those people if their jobs should disappear than they are for themselves.

“Get a much better paying job elsewhere tomorrow” could be somewhat overstating it, especially those who are past a certain age. I don’t doubt this is true for young adults.

[appleman2006]

Sure but for many of the older ones I doubt that is about the pay anymore either. As I said if it was about the pay they probably would not if been working there in the first place.

[Sienna]

[quote="Admiral Acbon"]I just spent way too much time reading this thread. Yeah, virtually the entire thing (albeit no linked content). I have little to add, but since it's the popular thing to do...

Several thoughts-

People (in general) see an issue through the eyes of their experience. For some, they see everything as reminiscent of the evils they experienced and make a hobbyhorse (or even a career) of driving their point home.

The most sensible posts overall have primarily been posted by Dan Z. (with Ernie and a select few others coming close behind). This comes from close experience with the organization coupled with an ability to back up and see the overall picture.

This "Trudy Harder Metzger" is someone I've heard of before. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I believe the previous issue(s) would have been a criticism of her Mennonite upbringing. No, she's not currently Mennonite. Even "Anabaptist" is a stretch. Her "Be in Christ" denomination had been the Canadian iteration of the Brethren In Christ (who became their own group by 1780ish) before they ditched the "patriarchal" name.[/

What if the other voices are actually those who’ve had an unwanted glimpse out a different window and been afforded a different view? It’s disrespectful to discredit individuals as not “sensible” simply because they do not agree with your assessment (and whose experience is different).

[Sienna]

Go back and read what I actually said. Gay men may not be anymore likely to be pedophiles than straight men. I didn’t insinuate that. I’m not talking about risk. Yes is is pedophilia.
But I do consider a male raping a male to be a homosexual action, yes.
Just as I consider a male raping a girl to be a heterosexual action.
Both are wrong. Rape is wrong. Child abuse is wrong. Homosexual behavior is wrong.

We are perhaps talking about semantics. But the people who study this sort of thing would say that pedophilia is a separate sexual orientation that is neither gay nor straight. It is attraction for prepubescent children. And the great majority of pedophiles who abuse boys do not in fact identify as gay, and are not attracted to men. they generally identify as straight with a predilection for children. Which appears to be the case with JM as well.

For whatever it may be worth, It is my understanding that pedophilia has to do with something deep within the psych (brain, their own childhood, etc), being twisted in regards to power, powerlessness, and the abuse of power. Whereas sexual sin between consenting adults is about sexuality (and can connect with many things). Two different things.

[RZehr]

I think homosexual behavior is also unnatural. And in the past was considered a mental illness too.
I’m no expert. But my stance on these things are not reliant on what the country and era I happen to live in, calls these things.

[steve-in-kville]

For whatever it may be worth, It is my understanding that pedophilia has to do with something deep within the psych (brain, their own childhood, etc), being twisted in regards to power, powerlessness, and the abuse of power. Whereas sexual sin between consenting adults is about sexuality (and can connect with many things). Two different things.

I've debated this with so many people and the only thing we agree on is its perversion however you want to slice it. Some people think its because a boy is babied and coddled all his childhood. I've see that theory proven and disproven. I work with some very spiritual men who are convinced its demon possession.

I honestly do not have an answer.

(Does anyone know if J. Mast was ever married? Or in normal boy/girl relationship?)

[Aurien]

For whatever it may be worth, It is my understanding that pedophilia has to do with something deep within the psych (brain, their own childhood, etc), being twisted in regards to power, powerlessness, and the abuse of power. Whereas sexual sin between consenting adults is about sexuality (and can connect with many things). Two different things.

I've debated this with so many people and the only thing we agree on is its perversion however you want to slice it. Some people think its because a boy is babied and coddled all his childhood. I've see that theory proven and disproven. I work with some very spiritual men who are convinced its demon possession.

I honestly do not have an answer.

(Does anyone know if J. Mast was ever married? Or in normal boy/girl relationship?)

He's currently married and has at least one child. He and his wife, Marian renewed their vows sometime after he fled back to the States. In the recording of Harold Herr you can hear Harold say that Jeriah's future father-in=law knew about Jeriah molesting young boys but thought that he had repented.