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Re: Morals & ethics behind supporting certain mission efforts?
Posted: Thu May 09, 2024 4:22 pm
by steve-in-kville
Sudsy wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 1:44 pm
Anyway I'm just rambling on but would love to hear more thoughts from others on this. Do you know personally of an unchurched person who became a Christian and quickly experienced radical changes in their lives ?
That should be a thread all in its own!
Re: Morals & ethics behind supporting certain mission efforts?
Posted: Thu May 09, 2024 4:58 pm
by Sudsy
steve-in-kville wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 4:22 pm
Sudsy wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 1:44 pm
Anyway I'm just rambling on but would love to hear more thoughts from others on this. Do you know personally of an unchurched person who became a Christian and quickly experienced radical changes in their lives ?
That should be a thread all in its own!
Sorry, got carried away.
Regarding this topic I do think we need to check out with God and other Christians, who we believe would give good Christian advice on any efforts of street ministry. But when we do proceed, I believe, we also should do what we do as unto the Lord regardless of how it might initially be received. I believe our rewards as Christians has much to do with our doing good deeds and our attitudes in doing them. And perhaps someday it will have it's saving impact on those who are ministered to and we might never be aware of in this life.
What struct me in that link that RZehr provided is when she said - “I tried to transform his whole life. But sometimes when you want something for somebody, they may not want that for themselves.” So true yet as Christians we believe in the transformation that only God can do when it comes to our whole life. It involves more than relief from drug addiction but rather sin addiction of all sorts and having eternal life with Jesus.
Re: Morals & ethics behind supporting certain mission efforts?
Posted: Fri May 10, 2024 9:20 am
by steve-in-kville
Sudsy wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 4:58 pm
steve-in-kville wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 4:22 pm
Sudsy wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 1:44 pm
Anyway I'm just rambling on but would love to hear more thoughts from others on this. Do you know personally of an unchurched person who became a Christian and quickly experienced radical changes in their lives ?
That should be a thread all in its own!
Sorry, got carried away.
Regarding this topic I do think we need to check out with God and other Christians, who we believe would give good Christian advice on any efforts of street ministry. But when we do proceed, I believe, we also should do what we do as unto the Lord regardless of how it might initially be received. I believe our rewards as Christians has much to do with our doing good deeds and our attitudes in doing them. And perhaps someday it will have it's saving impact on those who are ministered to and we might never be aware of in this life.
What struct me in that link that RZehr provided is when she said - “I tried to transform his whole life. But sometimes when you want something for somebody, they may not want that for themselves.” So true yet as Christians we believe in the transformation that only God can do when it comes to our whole life. It involves more than relief from drug addiction but rather sin addiction of all sorts and having eternal life with Jesus.
Don't be sorry. Good subject matter.
Re: Morals & ethics behind supporting certain mission efforts?
Posted: Fri May 10, 2024 10:09 am
by Sudsy
steve-in-kville wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2024 9:20 am
Sudsy wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 4:58 pm
steve-in-kville wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 4:22 pm
That should be a thread all in its own!
Sorry, got carried away.
Regarding this topic I do think we need to check out with God and other Christians, who we believe would give good Christian advice on any efforts of street ministry. But when we do proceed, I believe, we also should do what we do as unto the Lord regardless of how it might initially be received. I believe our rewards as Christians has much to do with our doing good deeds and our attitudes in doing them. And perhaps someday it will have it's saving impact on those who are ministered to and we might never be aware of in this life.
What struct me in that link that RZehr provided is when she said - “I tried to transform his whole life. But sometimes when you want something for somebody, they may not want that for themselves.” So true yet as Christians we believe in the transformation that only God can do when it comes to our whole life. It involves more than relief from drug addiction but rather sin addiction of all sorts and having eternal life with Jesus.
Don't be sorry. Good subject matter.
I'm prone to wander when it comes to topics. Seems like a common trait in the Sudds family. In our family, someone starts a topic or asks a question and at some point either someone in the family tries to bring us back to what started it all or we just continue to wander wherever the conversation goes.
Re: Morals & ethics behind supporting certain mission efforts?
Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 7:08 am
by steve-in-kville
I did find an organization that operates in the Kensington area that, unfortunately, does some of the above mentioned "harm reduction" stuff, but they do a lot of other programs that I can align with. My employer allows each employee to ear-mark donations to non-profits of our choosing and may send some love their way. They have a bit of an unconventional name, so I'm sure this will get interesting once my donation submission reaches the front office
Re: Morals & ethics behind supporting certain mission efforts?
Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 11:55 am
by Signtist
Josh wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 9:25 amUltimately, stopping using drugs isn't that hard. When someone truly hits rock bottom, they'll stop using and get clean.
My spirit disagrees with this statement. It could be correct, somehow. It is also unhelpful and in my opinion barely passes the test of Christian charity.
Re: Morals & ethics behind supporting certain mission efforts?
Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 12:28 pm
by Josh
Signtist wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 11:55 am
Josh wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 9:25 amUltimately, stopping using drugs isn't that hard. When someone truly hits rock bottom, they'll stop using and get clean.
My spirit disagrees with this statement. It could be correct, somehow. It is also unhelpful and in my opinion barely passes the test of Christian charity.
Let’s try another example.
“Ultimately, stopping fornication isn’t that hard. When someone truly hits rock bottom, they’ll stop for fornicating and choose a life of chastity.”
“Ultimately, stopping beating your wife isn’t that hard. When someone hits rock bottom, they’ll stop beating their wife and no longer choose violence to relate to their spouse.”
Using drugs is a choice. Not using is a choice. The drug user has a choice, every single time.
Re: Morals & ethics behind supporting certain mission efforts?
Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 12:31 pm
by steve-in-kville
This subject should be spun off into its own thread. I see both Sightist's point and Josh's, both at the same time.
Re: Morals & ethics behind supporting certain mission efforts?
Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 12:53 pm
by Signtist
Josh wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 12:28 pm
Signtist wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 11:55 am
Josh wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 9:25 amUltimately, stopping using drugs isn't that hard. When someone truly hits rock bottom, they'll stop using and get clean.
My spirit disagrees with this statement. It could be correct, somehow. It is also unhelpful and in my opinion barely passes the test of Christian charity.
Let’s try another example.
“Ultimately, stopping fornication isn’t that hard. When someone truly hits rock bottom, they’ll stop for fornicating and choose a life of chastity.”
“Ultimately, stopping beating your wife isn’t that hard. When someone hits rock bottom, they’ll stop beating their wife and no longer choose violence to relate to their spouse.”
Using drugs is a choice. Not using is a choice. The drug user has a choice, every single time.
Yes, sin is a choice. And some sins are harder to say no to than others. Next time I attend a Teen Challenge service I'll ask one of the guys how easy quitting was. It would seem to me that calling it "easy" is not correct and makes light of the struggle the people who do quit frequently go through. I've never been there, never plan to be.
Drug use is almost universally started as a medication for pain. If you can't help a person get rid of the pain, your chances of succeeding with their drug problem has about a 5% chance of success. If quitting was easy, more would do it.
Re: Morals & ethics behind supporting certain mission efforts?
Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 12:55 pm
by Signtist
steve-in-kville wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 12:31 pm
This subject should be spun off into its own thread. I see both Sightist's point and Josh's, both at the same time.
I'm not gonna fight about it. Josh is absolutely right that nobody quits until they hit rock bottom. He is also right that drug use is a choice. I doubt very much that he's correct when he says it's "ultimately easy."
If it's so simple, why are we such abject failures at helping people with addiction? "They just didn't want to be free badly enough." Sounds like a cliche cop out.
Glib clichés haven't solved the drug epidemic up until now, and I don't foresee them solving it in the near future.