Josh wrote: To what degree do you feel this is a conspiracy versus a widespread cultural problem?
I think it’s a widespread cultural problem that can quickly turn into a coverup.
I agree! It is a widespread cultural problem that folks seek to hide. Why do CMs typically seek to hid this problem? I believe it is because CMs take pride in the supposed fact the rules and regulations supposedly prevent these issues from occurring. When it doesn't work, people try to hide that fact so as to remain in the bubble that feels good to them. It's scary to question your own worldview. Especially, when daring to question is, by rule, going to lead to your own expulsion from the only community you know well.
Yet this situation happened in a Charity church that has a reputation for being on the liberal end of things, and where they are against rules and encourage questioning anyone who promotes rules for Christian living.
Someone else elsewhere on this thread posted sermons from that church espousing the exact teaching you wrote above.
joshuabgood wrote:Because of your experiences, and being from the same community originally, I understand your feelings and am not surprised.
You know what is particularly disturbing? In 2007 I changed states and moved in with the aunt I mentioned in the story, she had changed states as well. Somehow, that uncle found out exactly where I was and, for the first time ever, sent me a Christmas card the same year. I am not certain about who in our former community let him know that I lived there, but I have a very good idea of who it was. I have never trusted said individual since. The situation scared both myself and her.
Sienna wrote:
Ernie, Perhaps this is being hushed by the Menno community because so many Menno jobs are at stake seeing as CAM is the employer of how many Mennos (I think I read 900 somewhere)? Perhaps the true test of American Mennonite Christianity is when their job is at stake?
Or simply money in general. Take the money away from the Mennonites and they will dissolve in five years.
Sienna wrote:
Ernie, Perhaps this is being hushed by the Menno community because so many Menno jobs are at stake seeing as CAM is the employer of how many Mennos (I think I read 900 somewhere)? Perhaps the true test of American Mennonite Christianity is when their job is at stake?
Or simply money in general. Take the money away from the Mennonites and they will dissolve in five years.
you sure it’d last that long?
Maybe they’d all become Holdemans like happened in 1874 when they were all broke in Kansas
Josh wrote:Yet this situation happened in a Charity church that has a reputation for being on the liberal end of things, and where they are against rules and encourage questioning anyone who promotes rules for Christian living.
I am neither a plain Mennonite nor Charity. To me, it looks like both CAM and Charity have responsibility here and like many other Christian groups, they both fell short. I assume both are learning.
I think there's danger in emphasizing how much of it was the fault of that other guy. It's better for each party to take responsibility for their own part. We don't want to sound like this.
The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”
The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
Let the man, the woman, CAM, and Charity each consider their own responsibility. Along with most other Christian ministries and denominations.
RZehr wrote:Another thing that is interesting is how the volume of blame in the media is on the people who allowed it vs. Jeriah Mast.
I don't think that is the case. People understand that he will very likely spend most of the rest of his life in prison. There is very little question or controversy about that. And it's frankly not particularly interesting. There are thousands of similar sex offenders currently in prison or awaiting trial. We aren't here talking about any of them. These sorts of crimes are hardly newsworthy anymore beyond local police blotters and such. Any one of us can open our local papers and find similar stories.
What makes this case newsworthy is not JM. He's very mundane and uninteresting. It is the question of how an organization could look the other way for so long, knowing who they had in their midst. And how they could continue to return him to a position of authority over children, knowing who they were dealing with.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Josh wrote:Yet this situation happened in a Charity church that has a reputation for being on the liberal end of things, and where they are against rules and encourage questioning anyone who promotes rules for Christian living.
Someone else elsewhere on this thread posted sermons from that church espousing the exact teaching you wrote above.
One person's liberal is another person's conservative. I also know of churches like that that are actually rather conservative.
Josh wrote:Yet this situation happened in a Charity church that has a reputation for being on the liberal end of things, and where they are against rules and encourage questioning anyone who promotes rules for Christian living.
Someone else elsewhere on this thread posted sermons from that church espousing the exact teaching you wrote above.
One person's liberal is another person's conservative. I also know of churches like that that are actually rather conservative.
Sure, but Jeriah Mast’s congregation subscribed to the doctrine you promoted above. Yet it didn’t help at all.
This isn’t to attack you - I don’t believe in a rules and regulation type of conservative Mennonite / Amish system, either - but it is definitely not a cure all and was not the culprit in the CAM scandal at all.
I just had to chime in here. It is a welcome sight to see CMs cleaning house. This is long overdue. How much of a house will be left? That is hard to say. I suspect only a small remnant of men might remain. There is so much abuse that is hidden and so much abuse that has been DEFENDED by local churches (the latter happened to my extended family).
To what degree do you feel this is a conspiracy versus a widespread cultural problem?
I think it’s a widespread cultural problem that can quickly turn into a coverup. For example, here on MennoNet, I don’t think ernie and mike are conspirators at all. Yet from my perspective they could feel that way, as they were reticent to discuss these details because it “felt wrong” to them. That seems cultural.
A conspiracy could indeed take advantage of plain peoples’ reticence.
I do not think Ernie or Mike or myself for that matter were reluctant to speak to the issue because it "felt wrong" to us. Rather I think all three of us have had enough experience in life to know that without us being in the inside so to speak all our suggestions really were little more than armchair quarterbacking.
I am guessing that they like me spent a lot more time praying that the right things would be done rather than simply trying to spend a lot of time predetermining what that was. And while I still have lots of concerns, that is what I am continuing to do.
I think it is fair to say that I have served on more boards than the majority of you here. Some of them were of relatively large organisations as well. And I have sat through my share of meetings that involved making some pretty tough decisions. I am simply sharing this to say that there are varying reasons why some of us respond the way we do and it does not have anything to do with circling the wagons so to speak.
Having said all of that I think all three of us have stated some things that we felt were totally necessary for CAM to do and do quickly. I think all three of us were very supportive of the white paper that Dan put out.
And I am guessing that all three of us are hoping that this will help give conservative Anabaptists a better perspective on how to handle situations of this nature in the future. What is somewhat ironic in this is that I think all three of us are quite open about talking about the weak points in our cultures. None of us think we have it all figured out. But nor do we want to throw away the good.
you sure it’d last that long? 
