Why have the Anabaptists FAILED at Reaching the Masses

[Josh]

Do you think you can have salvation if you don't believe He rose?

That’s putting the cart before the horse. A believer believes the Bible. Believing the Bible doesn’t make me a born again person, though.

If you are going to respond why don't you answer the actual question?

Yes, a new believer who sincerely wants to follow Jesusnand obey him may not get the exact formula of Protestant-evangelical salvation right at first. Jesus never taught us, “To be saved, you must believe in my future resurrection.” If it were so important, don’t you think Jesus would have told us?

[joshuabgood]

"Born again" is a metaphor Jesus uses to to try to explain to Nicodemus the new beginning that is necessary. He doesn't describe what that new beginning looks like. And thebNT has a record of numerous ways from thre thief on the cross to the centurion to the woman who touched his garment to the woman caught in adultery.

There are many different ways this happens and it is a mystery like the wind blowing.

[barnhart]

I still think you need to spend time in Hebrews. Chapter 9 maybe.

How about chapter 11 where it says the great heroes of faith died looking forward to the promise. Just as we look back. The difference is the opportunity to live a life of spirit filled faith in the kingdom in this life, not the eternal destination.

[Ernie]

I still think you need to spend time in Hebrews. Chapter 9 maybe.

If a person refuses to believe that Jesus died, was buried, and rose again, I don't expect such a person to have eternal life.

But it wouldn't surprise me if people who aren't aware of this ancient happening (during the time they are living on this earth) are given eternal life. It happened for the OT saints, and therefore it does not seem to me to be outside of the character of God to do it for people today. I wouldn't encourage anyone to bank on this and try to stay ignorant as that is basically the same as refusing to believe that Jesus rose.

Interesting. So why evangelize, or disciple, if you prefer, if people would be better off not knowing and thus not being put at risk of making the wrong choice?

I do not know whether God gives all people a chance to hear the Gospel in this life or in the life to come. I'm just saying that it would not surprise me, and it would not be out of character for Him to do something like this, based on what he did between his death and resurrection.
But regardless of that, ignorance is not bliss. If a person makes the wrong choice in this life, they may also make the wrong choice should they have a chance in the life to come. It appears that not everybody in Hades heard and responded to the Gospel when Jesus came and preached to them (e.g. the rich man Dives). We don't know whether Dives did not hear the Gospel, whether he heard but did not respond favorably, or whether he heard but was not given the choice to respond, based on the choices he made in this life.
We do know that God wants people to believe, repent, and walk in newness of life in this life, so that is why we evangelize and make disciples.

Ignorance about God and His reality is not something that benefits anyone, whether in this life or the life to come. So, one of the reasons for evangelism and disciple-making is to help people understand reality and begin fulfilling the purpose for why they were created. Embracing reality includes believing in Jesus and in his death, burial, and resurrection.
We thrive whenever we embrace reality and begin embracing the purpose for our creation. I want to see everyone in the world, thrive!

[silentreader]

That’s putting the cart before the horse. A believer believes the Bible. Believing the Bible doesn’t make me a born again person, though.

If you are going to respond why don't you answer the actual question?

Yes, a new believer who sincerely wants to follow Jesusnand obey him may not get the exact formula of Protestant-evangelical salvation right at first. Jesus never taught us, “To be saved, you must believe in my future resurrection.” If it were so important, don’t you think Jesus would have told us?

He didn't have to teach that when He was alive, because He had the power to forgive sins, on the spot, by His word.
Can you find salvation, since His resurrection, if you don't believe he rose?

[silentreader]

"Born again" is a metaphor Jesus uses to to try to explain to Nicodemus the new beginning that is necessary. He doesn't describe what that new beginning looks like. And thebNT has a record of numerous ways from thre thief on the cross to the centurion to the woman who touched his garment to the woman caught in adultery.

There are many different ways this happens and it is a mystery like the wind blowing.

I agree. And my original point was that there were different ways also at different times. But they all hinge on Jesus Christ.

[Josh]

If you are going to respond why don't you answer the actual question?

Yes, a new believer who sincerely wants to follow Jesusnand obey him may not get the exact formula of Protestant-evangelical salvation right at first. Jesus never taught us, “To be saved, you must believe in my future resurrection.” If it were so important, don’t you think Jesus would have told us?

He didn't have to teach that when He was alive, because He had the power to forgive sins, on the spot, by His word.
Can you find salvation, since His resurrection, if you don't believe he rose?

No person can “find” salvation on their own, and salvation is not a result of mental assent.

Jesus can choose to save anyone for any reason and by any means he wishes.

[silentreader]

Yes, a new believer who sincerely wants to follow Jesusnand obey him may not get the exact formula of Protestant-evangelical salvation right at first. Jesus never taught us, “To be saved, you must believe in my future resurrection.” If it were so important, don’t you think Jesus would have told us?

He didn't have to teach that when He was alive, because He had the power to forgive sins, on the spot, by His word.
Can you find salvation, since His resurrection, if you don't believe he rose?

No person can “find” salvation on their own, and salvation is not a result of mental assent.

Jesus can choose to save anyone for any reason and by any means he wishes.

You won't answer the question, will you? I wonder why.

[Josh]

He didn't have to teach that when He was alive, because He had the power to forgive sins, on the spot, by His word.
Can you find salvation, since His resurrection, if you don't believe he rose?

No person can “find” salvation on their own, and salvation is not a result of mental assent.

Jesus can choose to save anyone for any reason and by any means he wishes.

You won't answer the question, will you? I wonder why.

I just did, but I think you’re trying to impose a fundamentalist & systematic-theology paradigm, and I don’t exegete nor practice in that paradigm.

Here’s a better question: is everyone who believe Jesus rose going to heaven?

Also, if you’d like to get at something, just say it. No need for “I wonder why.” Say what you’re thinking.

[silentreader]

Yes, a new believer who sincerely wants to follow Jesusnand obey him may not get the exact formula of Protestant-evangelical salvation right at first. Jesus never taught us, “To be saved, you must believe in my future resurrection.” If it were so important, don’t you think Jesus would have told us?

He didn't have to teach that when He was alive, because He had the power to forgive sins, on the spot, by His word.
Can you find salvation, since His resurrection, if you don't believe he rose?

No person can “find” salvation on their own, and salvation is not a result of mental assent.

Jesus can choose to save anyone for any reason and by any means he wishes.

Speaking of evangelicalism/fundamentalism, is this referring to predestination? Are you proposing divine election?
I think the concept of seeking and finding is very real in Scripture.