Anabaptist Sex Offender Watch List

[Grace]

Does she have concrete verification and evidence that the death threats are coming from God's people? If she can't or won't provide the proof behind her accusations, she needs to refrain from purporting them.

Grace, I've disagreed with many (most!) of your posts here on this issue, but I do agree with you on this one.

I'm not the arbiter here, and know few of the people involved in this mess, so my opinion is just that -- my opinion. But this latest update from Trudy feels a little...speculative. Maybe Stanley Fox did know. It makes sense that he would have known. But throwing his name out there with no substantive evidence in the article does make me really uncomfortable. Added to that, the vague line about the victims receiving death threats. Again, very possible! Likely, even! But by not saying from whom, and the nature of the threats, it leaves everything open to the imagination.

I'm much more comfortable with the type of article that Christian News Network put out on this -- they listed their sourcing, and quotes from those sources substantiating statements in the article.

LOL...thank you for disagreeing respectfully.

And if Trudy slipped up on her verbiage about the death threats, ( and who of us hasn't used poor verbiage) she needs to correct it. Because it sure sounds like she meant people at CAM are threatening the Haitian victims with death threats.

And I agree about slinging out Stanley Fox's name without verification and also his brother Earl's name, is problematic.

The more outrageous accusations/claims she makes without substantive evidence, the less likely she will be believed.

[QuietObserver]

Throughout these blog posts, it's been obvious that Trudy doesn't have experience overseas in places like Haiti. That's fine, and so far the places where it shows haven't been important.

On Facebook in an update to this idea, referring to the fact that she would report names to other countries, Trudy says: "being interviewed by the country they go to serve, and being cleared, does not make them innocent". She says this right below "being on the list does not make the accused guilt[y]".

The idea that a tip from a private individual will result in interview that may or may not clear someone is, quite frankly, fantastic. If anything comes of it, being denounced for being on the list will be as good as being guilty. If a country handles things in accordance with the rule of law, it will expect anything worth pursuing to have been handled by US law and communicated in the background check that many countries require for residency permits. Or if not, local police may well ignore it, not having the time or resources to pursue hearsay from a private individual. But in no case will there be an "interview" or due process. And that has the potential to be very damaging.

When you live in a foreign country, you are always conscious of the fact that your status is precarious. Always somewhere in the back of your mind you're aware that a misunderstanding with the police or a bad encounter with a well-connected government official could cause you to lose everything. It's not likely, but a mistake or misunderstanding can undo years of work.

Beyond that, consider that homosexuality is punishable by death in several countries (including some where CAM works). Would Trudy feel comfortable reporting unconfirmed allegations of crimes like Jeriah's in a situation like this?

I understand the heart of what she wants to do and why she sees the need for a list like this. I just find the idea, at least in this aspect, troubling: I see a lot of potential for harm, and very little potential for good.

-----------------------

A second thought: I know a guy with a common name that he shares with a convicted criminal and this causes him some trouble with background checks from time to time. In plain circles, the pool of names is somewhat shallow. I'm glad mine is one of the less common ones.

I wish Trudy would be more careful. This type of stuff hurts her credibility. I've followed her for years. She's usually correct about the big picture, but is wrong about some details. This is then used to undermine the big picture.

[queserasera_2]

Denying due process to others is not justice for onesself.

She lost me there.

[AnthonyMartin]

I know a guy with a common name that he shares with a convicted criminal and this causes him some trouble with background checks from time to time. In plain circles, the pool of names is somewhat shallow. I'm glad mine is one of the less common ones.

I have a very common name, especially in the Mennonite community. I have already experience extensive delays traveling abroad because "a bad dude out there has your name" (quote was an immigration officer).

The very nature of the list has a presumption of guilt to it that is troubling and unethical at best, immoral and illegal at worst.

[Aurien]

The idea of a database actually isn't that far fetched. I'm not sure that Trudy Metzger's way of going about it is correct but there are others who keep databases like that in other denominations or religions.

https://sojo.net/articles/southern-bapt ... 9Mzw-b5D98

[Neto]

Trudy’s initial idea is worth serious consideration.
She kinda sabotaged it by wanting to include those accused. That’s really not a good idea.
....

(I thought I posted this before, but must have missed some last step - was in a hurry then because my wife called for supper just as I was finishing.)

Anyway, I agree. So maybe there should also be a list of false accusers. As some have already said, a false accusation can ruin a person's ministry - their whole life.

A friend of mine from Bible Institute was ordained in a small inner-city Mennonite Brethren congregation, worked in a ministry for street kids, and was accused of sexual abuse by a boy he disciplined. It splashed across the front page of the local paper, but when he was cleared, there was just a little blurb someplace in the back of the paper. He lost his ministry, and the congregation ended up closing too. Everything was ruined by that false accusation.

[Aurien]

Trudy’s initial idea is worth serious consideration.
She kinda sabotaged it by wanting to include those accused. That’s really not a good idea.
....

(I thought I posted this before, but must have missed some last step - was in a hurry then because my wife called for supper just as I was finishing.)

Anyway, I agree. So maybe there should also be a list of false accusers. As some have already said, a false accusation can ruin a person's ministry - their whole life.

A friend of mine from Bible Institute was ordained in a small inner-city Mennonite Brethren congregation, worked in a ministry for street kids, and was accused of sexual abuse by a boy he disciplined. It splashed across the front page of the local paper, but when he was cleared, there was just a little blurb someplace in the back of the paper. He lost his ministry, and the congregation ended up closing too. Everything was ruined by that false accusation.

How was he cleared? I"m asking because sometimes children retract statements because they see the chaos that results when they tell what happened to them.

[Aurien]

if i understand, i may not -
i think the threats, name calling, etc., the Haiti victims are suffering are coming from their community, which is horrible. no matter where threats come from, they are horrible.
i believe she is saying, these children very unfairly are “marked” in their own culture, due to predatory acts of JMast.

such things happen in the U.S., so, there should be no real criticism of Haiti’s culture over it.
it’s not “right,” but it is real life.

Although you mean well in defending her, she was referring to CAM in her statements or she wouldn't have referenced the "Forbes top 100 Charity list ". So in a round about way she is claiming that people from CAM are making death threats against the Haitian victims. If that is not what she meant she needs to be more careful in her verbiage, because that is a very serious accusation.

In her blog post it says
"Some victims reached out numerous times to different people over the course of several years, and were always brushed aside. ‘Until you, no one cared. No one listened to our story,’ is a message I keep hearing from the victims. And now that it is out in the open, they thank me that truth is finally acknowledged, but they add that they are in danger and have been threatened (not by the missionaries), so that they now live in fear."

Then a bit later she says
"However, I am not an advisor for Haiti. So Haiti will need to navigate this criminal mess against one of the largest USA Christian relief work organizations – making the Forbes top 100 Charity list numerous times. It is not an easy thing to enter a legal battle. And it is even worse when you are up against religious people who are lawyered up.

And while they hire lawyers and avoid Haiti law — even while stating publicly they are cooperating with the law — some of the victims in Haiti are receiving death threats. There really is no justice among ‘God’s people’ when this is how they respond"

I don't see where she's accusing CAM of death threats. What she is trying to say is that while CAM is busy protecting themselves the victims they helped to create through their negligence are facing death threats in Haiti.

[Neto]

Trudy’s initial idea is worth serious consideration.
She kinda sabotaged it by wanting to include those accused. That’s really not a good idea.
....

(I thought I posted this before, but must have missed some last step - was in a hurry then because my wife called for supper just as I was finishing.)

Anyway, I agree. So maybe there should also be a list of false accusers. As some have already said, a false accusation can ruin a person's ministry - their whole life.

A friend of mine from Bible Institute was ordained in a small inner-city Mennonite Brethren congregation, worked in a ministry for street kids, and was accused of sexual abuse by a boy he disciplined. It splashed across the front page of the local paper, but when he was cleared, there was just a little blurb someplace in the back of the paper. He lost his ministry, and the congregation ended up closing too. Everything was ruined by that false accusation.

How was he cleared? I"m asking because sometimes children retract statements because they see the chaos that results when they tell what happened to them.

In the court case against him. (And just to avoid any thought that this was about racism, all of the persons involved were of the same "race", and none were "well-to-do". He was a poor black minister in a poor black congregation working in a poor black neighborhood.)

[Grace]

Aslanhasheard said:
I don't see where she's accusing CAM of death threats. What she is trying to say is that while CAM is busy protecting themselves the victims they helped to create through their negligence are facing death threats in Haiti.

When Trudy says "There really is no justice among ‘God’s people’ when this is how they respond"
Is she talking about God's people in Haiti? I don't think so, because prior to this she was talking about CAM. Unless she made a verbiage mistake, she is accusing people from CAM for death threats against Haitian victims. Statements like this do not help her credibility.