The NEW Non-conformity Poll

[Wade]

I always thought that things like the plain suit coat or cape dresses had more to do with modesty and simplicity to glorify God than trying to be different than the world....? I guess so many things that look the same can be done for different reasons.

There’s nothing simple about buying regular suit jackets (which are the most expensive item of standard men’s clothing, and also superfluous) and then tailoring them to look a certain way solely so they don’t look like regular suit jackets.

Likewise, there is nothing modest about mandating head coverings that are actually transparent, nor anything simple about ones that are complex to make and require sophisticated, synthetic materials.

I smile a little when a tie is considered to be an extra just for looks but a suit coat especially one especially tailored to a certain look is not.

There are very few times presently in my life where a suit coat is not as useless as a tie to me. Ultimately who is it that determines we need to wear a suit to be dressed up? I think it is the same people that say we need to wear a tie.

And the fact is I could actually see some good reasons for wearing both. But right now I wear none to be less offensive to the people closest to me that I really care about.

I find a use for a coat all winter long...

[appleman2006]

Sure but not inside. And for winter it is not warm enough for outside. The fact is suits are meant for dress up far more than for warmth. That is simply a fact. In days gone by where you needed more layers inside due to drafty buildings it was a different story. Or when you transported via horse drawn carriage. Today a suit has very little practical purpose.

[Wade]

Sure but not inside. And for winter it is not warm enough for outside. The fact is suits are meant for dress up far more than for warmth. That is simply a fact. In days gone by where you needed more layers inside due to drafty buildings it was a different story. Or when you transported via horse drawn carriage. Today a suit has very little practical purpose.

I don't understand the big deal?

[ken_sylvania]

Sure but not inside. And for winter it is not warm enough for outside. The fact is suits are meant for dress up far more than for warmth. That is simply a fact. In days gone by where you needed more layers inside due to drafty buildings it was a different story. Or when you transported via horse drawn carriage. Today a suit has very little practical purpose.

Interestingly enough, in our area the folks who have laid aside their plain coats have a tendency to wear sweaters instead... while I find that a sweater has very little practical purpose because I'm warm enough wearing a coat.

[RZehr]

Sure but not inside. And for winter it is not warm enough for outside. The fact is suits are meant for dress up far more than for warmth. That is simply a fact. In days gone by where you needed more layers inside due to drafty buildings it was a different story. Or when you transported via horse drawn carriage. Today a suit has very little practical purpose.

Interestingly enough, in our area the folks who have laid aside their plain coats have a tendency to wear sweaters instead... while I find that a sweater has very little practical purpose because I'm warm enough wearing a coat.

They don't wear the same coats they wear during the week?

[ken_sylvania]

Sure but not inside. And for winter it is not warm enough for outside. The fact is suits are meant for dress up far more than for warmth. That is simply a fact. In days gone by where you needed more layers inside due to drafty buildings it was a different story. Or when you transported via horse drawn carriage. Today a suit has very little practical purpose.

Interestingly enough, in our area the folks who have laid aside their plain coats have a tendency to wear sweaters instead... while I find that a sweater has very little practical purpose because I'm warm enough wearing a coat.

They don't wear the same coats they wear during the week?

Not the coats they wear to the carpenter job or to the barn, at any rate.

[Wade]

I smile a little when a tie is considered to be an extra just for looks but a suit coat especially one especially tailored to a certain look is not.

I can't tell what you mean by "smile?" When things are written this way I am not sure if that is condescending like you know better? I don't understand? Every coat I have buttons to the top except the lapel coats I have - so the lapels have the most tailored look I thought?

There are very few times presently in my life where a suit coat is not as useless as a tie to me. Ultimately who is it that determines we need to wear a suit to be dressed up? I think it is the same people that say we need to wear a tie.

I can relate, I was very bother when I first stopped being an atheist and going to church by the pressure to dress up. I would ask, "Doesn't God care what's on the inside? Does he want me to put on a show one day a week?"

And the fact is I could actually see some good reasons for wearing both. But right now I wear none to be less offensive to the people closest to me that I really care about.

Could you please explain why people are offended?

[Dan Z]

I think ties are jewelry for men - ornamental extras with no practical value - status symbols of corporate and political culture. Furthermore, in my opinion, if we are going to expect our sisters to set aside earrings and necklaces for modesty sake - how can we, at the same time, wear a tie?

Regarding non-conformed dress - when my wife and I first became a part of a plain community over 30 years ago, we both were challenged by how non-conformed dress was a powerful external values statement. It declared that we as individuals and our faith community were driven by ideals that were different from the dominant society around us - simplicity, modesty, purity, faithfulness, brotherhood. This made sense to us because in our hearts these values changes were also happening as we became "transformed by the renewing of our minds" to understand how different the upside-down Kingdom of Jesus was relative to the world we had grown up in. As our hearts changed our witness changed - so it made sense that our dress would as well. It was, and is, one of the things that draws me to non-conformed Anabaptism - the idea that our heart condition should affect all areas of our lives, internal and external.

My wife began to wear a covering, she moved to consistently wearing (and making her own) modest jumpers, and dresses for our girls, and she set aside for good the earrings and necklaces that she occasionally wore. These were HUGE changes for her, and came at a significant cost in relationship to those who had known us before these changes. The problem was that all the burden of non-conformity was being placed on her. That didn't seem right or fair. I wanted to stand in solidarity with her, and I also wanted to bear witness to the changes in my own heart. At that time I decided to take on the dress of the Bruderhof brothers we were in relationship with - simple and practical Hutterite black pants, button up shirts, and suspenders. I also joined my plain brethren in eschewing ties (including archiving the one I wore on our wedding day) and other adornments. Though we have sojourned with a number different Anabaptist groups since then (some plain, some not), these commitments to non-conformity continue to be an important part of our family's witness to this day.

[steve-in-kville]

I think ties are jewelry for men - ornamental extras with no practical value - status symbols of corporate and political culture.

I like this statement. I could have quoted a lot of what you wrote.

As a side note, when you think about it, I have witnessed some things that are done to appear "plain" but become impractical. Like men wearing long-sleeved shirts all summer long. Or the ladies paying $30+ to have a covering made when a hanging veil would suffice. We put a lot of time and money into filling a culture instead of following Christ.

[MaxPC]

I think ties are jewelry for men - ornamental extras with no practical value - status symbols of corporate and political culture.

The only value they served for me was as an expensive bib.