Relating to Christmas

[Wade]

To be honest, I have trouble not condemning followers of Jesus who encourage and teach santa.

Christmas trees and the other trappings I certainly have a problem with but ignorance is easy to have. Anyone who thinks about the songs about santa and stuff about santa. The popular song for instance,

he knows when you are sleeping, he knows when your awake, he knows when you've been good or bad so be good for goodness sake.

He is set up as a false god. I was encouraged to write letters to this god by my parents. The practice of leaving cookies and milk for santa... offering anyone? The hope and tears you see in these child like letters... Praying to santa I'm sure some of you have heard the prayer "all I want for christmas is dad and mom to get back together"
Are we really any different from the roman people?

This is what I can relate too.

I don't know if I ever really trusted my parents the same ever again after I found out their was no Santa... Why lie and get children all excited just to have a major devastating let down...?

[Soloist]

Yea, and little children's faith can be shaken so easily. I don't know how common this actually is, but I have heard atheists compare Jesus and santa as being equally (un)real, and wonder if kids lose faith in Jesus when they know their parents lie to them about other things. I was lied to about the easter bunny, tooth fairy, and santa. None of my siblings still follow Christ, although one might still believe that Jesus is real. I don't know that this was the reason, obviously, but I disagree with my parents on several things.

[Dan Z]

I never understood the term "true meaning of Christmas". To me, attempts to explain this term always end up feeling really contorted. Trying to make analogies between getting new tools or new toys to God giving us his son, or the wise men giving Jesus gifts just never makes sense to me.

I see what you are saying here ernie...justifying all trappings of Christmas with spiritual analogies can be a tortuous path indeed.

On the other hand, the initial idea of "Christ-mass" (Dec. 25th) as a day to commemorate the celebration of the birth of Jesus goes back about 1,700 years. When I think about "the true meaning of Christmas" - to me it is simply a celebration of this blessed, and world-altering event.

I would add...it is also a pretty-good starting point for spiritual discussions with friends and neighbors.

[Bootstrap]

I would add...it is also a pretty-good starting point for spiritual discussions with friends and neighbors.

I agree. And Christmas also comes with some of the best hymns of the year. We don't have Santa, but we do sing Christmas carols around the tree with the candles burning. It's a very special time, and a holy time. We can include non-Christians in that, giving them a glimpse of our faith without offending them too much.

[Josh]

Things like Santa Claus, the Easter bunny, the tooth fairy, and Jack Frost are cultural traditions that have very little (if anything) to do with Christianity. The practice of them seems strange to me, since one is basically telling odd myths to one's children.

But I have a difficult time condemning a winter celebration with things like an evergreen tree placed indoors, gift-giving, putting up lights, and so forth. I do think that excessive decoration goes against our mindset of being "plain", as does stringing up lots of lights, but that seems no different than when I go to a youth function and there is a tastefully decorated coffee bar. I don't see a great deal of utility in getting agitated about such things.

I agree with Ernie that it would be helpful to separate the birth of our Lord from our culture's custom of a winter holiday. Perhaps we could shift our religious observances to Epiphany, which is a day Anabaptists traditionally observed Christmas, and the day when many of them (daresay I the majority of plain Anabaptists) still do

[Wade]

People have shared how trees, decorations and lights relate to Santa. But I have failed to see any of this relating to Christ?

Could someone explain to me how a fully committed Christian who has taken up their cross and forsaking the world and does everything to His glory can relate these things to worshiping our Lord in Spirit and truth?

Not that I want to say that it cannot be done, but with my upbringing I am confused why Christian's do these extra things unless they can have them somehow draw attention to Christ?

[Soloist]

(Deut 12:2-4 [KJV])
Ye shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which ye shall possess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree:
And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place.
Ye shall not do so unto the LORD your God.

Other translations of the last verse read as

4 You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way.

and then

8 Ye shall not do after all [the things] that we do here this day, every man whatsoever [is] right in his own eyes.

I've heard enough sermons using this to condemn quite a lot of modern church practices. Why should Christmas be excused from this mentality?

Now with this being said, I still struggle with things of the world and wanting to do them and I don't wish to condemn people but I do think we need to warn Christians. I wouldn't mind having a separate day to praise the birth... We shall look into epiphany.

[Josh]

People have shared how trees, decorations and lights relate to Santa. But I have failed to see any of this relating to Christ?

Could someone explain to me how a fully committed Christian who has taken up their cross and forsaking the world and does everything to His glory can relate these things to worshiping our Lord in Spirit and truth?

Not that I want to say that it cannot be done, but with my upbringing I am confused why Christian's do these extra things unless they can have them somehow draw attention to Christ?

I think we can celebrate cultural holidays and seasons that aren't overtly Christian. Part of how God created us is that he placed in a certain world and a certain culture.

Things I like doing during some seasons are bonfires with friends, roasting hot dogs. But that's not explictly Christian. I still think it's ok to do.

I avoid holidays that are overtly worldly: I don't think July 4 and Memorial Day are things I want to celebrate as a Christian, so I treat them just as a day off. I don't observe Halloween at all.

I do often go to a New Years' Eve party, even though there is nothing special about when our calendar starts and ends.

[Soloist]

I don't really have an issue with celebrating holidays in general. The key here is that it is a holiday celebrating Christ's birth and interweaving distinctly pagan traditions with it. I do not believe that Jesus is honored by a tree or mistletoe, yule tide logs, an over-emphasis on commercialism and so on.
We do celebrate Thanksgiving however we know someone else who doesn't for the sake of the Indians. We don't celebrate military holidays due to being non-resistors, but I am still struggling with vets day being a veteran and its my birthday... My wife has decided (also a vet) not to get free food... and I have not got free food in the last two years (I think). She accidentally picked up a free cupcake this year at Walmart since she forgot the day and her pregnant belly was in the way of the Veterans day sign so all she saw was "Free cupcake. Take one." We take the day off if given for Labor Day, President's day, and MLK day, but I would work if it meant others could take it off since I don't really care. We also do Mother's Day, Father's Day, and birthdays (minus candles). No Valentine's day or St Patties day since it seems more focused on Cupid and leprechauns and we don't really see a point. We do Resurrection Sunday rather than Easter, since the Easter bunny/eggs seems pagan and detracts from the Resurrection. Halloween seems mostly pagan even though it might have originally been Catholic, and since we don't believe in the concept of praying for the dead, we see no redeeming point in it. We don't celebrate New Years since the only real thing to celebrate is throwing away our old calendar and we need our sleep.

In all, we probably seem rather lame. We have a compromise on Christmas with our parents that we will eat a family meal with them after they do presents, but we are starting to wonder if that's a good idea given the influence from them and the nieces on our kids, especially since the nieces are big on santa and are into a lot of magic related stuff and will likely be playing with their presents. We also give all our kids at least one gift on the other's birthday, partly because they are still little, and are considering having the birthday child pick it out for their siblings as well as a place to donate to in order to encourage giving to others, as opposed to just celebration of self.

[Bootstrap]

People have shared how trees, decorations and lights relate to Santa. But I have failed to see any of this relating to Christ?

Christmas trees go back way before our modern Santa, and probably come from paradise trees used in the middle ages for biblical plays. Like Christmas, these plays eventually turned into celebrations that were a little too exuberant.

Not until the Renaissance are there clear records of trees being used as a symbol of Christmas—beginning in Latvia in 1510 and Strasbourg in 1521. Legend credits the Protestant reformer Martin Luther with inventing the Christmas tree, but the story has little historical basis.

The most likely theory is that Christmas trees started with medieval plays. Dramas depicting biblical themes began as part of the church's worship, but by the late Middle Ages, they had become rowdy, imaginative performances dominated by laypeople and taking place in the open air. The plays celebrating the Nativity were linked to the story of creation—in part because Christmas Eve was also considered the feast day of Adam and Eve. Thus, as part of the play for that day, the Garden of Eden was symbolized by a "paradise tree" hung with fruit.

These plays were banned in many places in the 16th century, and people perhaps began to set up "paradise trees" in their homes to compensate for the public celebration they could no longer enjoy. The earliest Christmas trees (or evergreen branches) used in homes were referred to as "paradises." They were often hung with round pastry wafers symbolizing the Eucharist, which developed into the cookie ornaments decorating German Christmas trees today.