CAM Molestation Issue

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
Judas Maccabeus

Re: CAM Molestation Issue

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

appleman2006 wrote:
Dan Z wrote:
queserasera_2 wrote:Unfortunately money talks and since CAM is apparently saying that they can't act conscientiously because they are being stewards of other peoples' money, I must find another steward. It's God's money, and I expect God's principles to be followed. I fear that short of a massive donor pullout, we will not see change. It grieves me to say that, but I am seeing protectionism in their actions thus far. I undertand there is to be another meeting of the higher ups tomorrow and I am hoping and praying for better things.
I expect something concrete will come out of tomorrow's meeting.

The initial reaction so far, with minimal info, has been a frustration for the supporting community, and was likely due to one or all of the following: 1) ongoing internal investigations that had yet to be completed, 2) requests from law enforcement not to say too much and corrupt their investigations, 3) advice from lawyers concerning protecting CAM and some of its employees from legal and financial jeopardy both in the US and Haiti.

From what I am sensing, I suspect the board and leadership of CAM have heard loud and clear the reaction of their community. Their future as an organization is likely dependent on how quickly, transparently and seriously they handle things from here on forward.
Dan I agree with this and am hoping and praying that it si so. I am glad to hear of today's meeting. If I had any advice for them it would again be this.
1. Anyone that had prior knowledge of thisat both the board level and at administration level needs to, ideally, resign and if not asked to leave.
2. if not an immediate change in top leadership at least plans put in place to work towards that.
3. If they do not already have a clear policy in place regarding board terms and limitations thereof a policy must be set in place going forward.

IMO this would be three things that could be done immediately without jeopardising the investigation and would show that CAM is indeed taking this very seriously.
I really want CAM to survive and I will continue praying that the right things will be done.
Actually, for a proper investigation, the leadership and all involved should have been locked out of the office, put on leave and denied access to IT systems as soon as the board got wind of this. Having them with access will compromise the investigation. The board could have appointed temporary managers to act to preserve the records and manage things during the investigation. This would have been best practices.

J.M.
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Josh

Re: CAM Molestation Issue

Post by Josh »

appleman2006 wrote:[Dan I agree with this and am hoping and praying that it si so. I am glad to hear of today's meeting. If I had any advice for them it would again be this.
1. Anyone that had prior knowledge of thisat both the board level and at administration level needs to, ideally, resign and if not asked to leave.
I have felt this way before, but I'm not sure if this would work now. Simply put, there are way too many people who would have to resign. I don't think bringing in all fresh, new people would fix anything, especially if the new people have the same mindset.

Instead, I think everyone who knew about it needs to be very public about what they knew, when they found out, and a public apology for not responding sooner. Some of those who knew were probably very afraid to go further with their knowledge.
2. if not an immediate change in top leadership at least plans put in place to work towards that.
I think we need to wait to know what "top leadership" knew. It's not even clear who the top leadership is, for example.
3. If they do not already have a clear policy in place regarding board terms and limitations thereof a policy must be set in place going forward.
Fully agree. Church of God in Christ, Mennonite uses rotating boards with terms generally limited to 2 years. This makes it very hard to cover up things long term. It's also healthy for the people involved to get a break, or be exposed to being on a board on a different area.
IMO this would be three things that could be done immediately without jeopardising the investigation and would show that CAM is indeed taking this very seriously.
I really want CAM to survive and I will continue praying that the right things will be done.
Agreed.

A way forward is to have an independent oversight board and an independent whistleblower organisation that has access to the leadership at the very highest levels of CAM. This is not terribly difficult to set up, and many other organisations have gone through the same changes. There are good resources out there about how to establish this.

One of the responsibilities of such an independent organisation is to help an entity like CAM navigate through problems like false accusations as well. Currently, CAM is completely wide open to false accusations from opportunistic people.
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Ernie

Re: CAM Molestation Issue

Post by Ernie »

Josh wrote:
appleman2006 wrote:[Dan I agree with this and am hoping and praying that it si so. I am glad to hear of today's meeting. If I had any advice for them it would again be this.
1. Anyone that had prior knowledge of thisat both the board level and at administration level needs to, ideally, resign and if not asked to leave.
I have felt this way before, but I'm not sure if this would work now. Simply put, there are way too many people who would have to resign. I don't think bringing in all fresh, new people would fix anything, especially if the new people have the same mindset.

Instead, I think everyone who knew about it needs to be very public about what they knew, when they found out, and a public apology for not responding sooner. Some of those who knew were probably very afraid to go further with their knowledge.
Josh wrote:
IMO this would be three things that could be done immediately without jeopardising the investigation and would show that CAM is indeed taking this very seriously.
I really want CAM to survive and I will continue praying that the right things will be done.
Agreed.

A way forward is to have an independent oversight board and an independent whistleblower organisation that has access to the leadership at the very highest levels of CAM. This is not terribly difficult to set up, and many other organisations have gone through the same changes. There are good resources out there about how to establish this.

One of the responsibilities of such an independent organisation is to help an entity like CAM navigate through problems like false accusations as well. Currently, CAM is completely wide open to false accusations from opportunistic people.
appleman2006 wrote:
Dan Z wrote: I expect something concrete will come out of tomorrow's meeting.

The initial reaction so far, with minimal info, has been a frustration for the supporting community, and was likely due to one or all of the following: 1) ongoing internal investigations that had yet to be completed, 2) requests from law enforcement not to say too much and corrupt their investigations, 3) advice from lawyers concerning protecting CAM and some of its employees from legal and financial jeopardy both in the US and Haiti.

From what I am sensing, I suspect the board and leadership of CAM have heard loud and clear the reaction of their community. Their future as an organization is likely dependent on how quickly, transparently and seriously they handle things from here on forward.
Dan I agree with this and am hoping and praying that it is so. I am glad to hear of today's meeting. If I had any advice for them it would again be this.
1. Anyone that had prior knowledge of this at both the board level and at administration level needs to, ideally, resign and if not asked to leave.
2. if not an immediate change in top leadership at least plans put in place to work towards that.
3. If they do not already have a clear policy in place regarding board terms and limitations thereof a policy must be set in place going forward.

IMO this would be three things that could be done immediately without jeopardising the investigation and would show that CAM is indeed taking this very seriously. I really want CAM to survive and I will continue praying that the right things will be done.
This is the kind of helpful feedback that supporters need to be sharing directly with those who can do something about the matter.
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Josh

Re: CAM Molestation Issue

Post by Josh »

Ernie wrote:This is the kind of helpful feedback that supporters need to be sharing directly with those who can do something about the matter.
Slight problem, Ernie: nobody's been listening to me, and I don't know how to get their ear.

If you'd like to change that, get in contact with me.
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joshuabgood

Re: CAM Molestation Issue

Post by joshuabgood »

Ernie, I love you as a brother, though I don't know you that well I appreciate your spirit and thought contributions. That said allow me if you will...
I think that the majority of the 900 or so folks who work with CAM are wondering how in the world this could have happened. I agree with Dan Z that this situation involves a handful of CAM employees. I don't see this as an organization wide problem.
I agree with you, probably as Dan Z and you hypothesize only a handful of the 900 knew. The issue is though, that key members did know. There is hard evidence that key leaders at CAM knew (I'll refrain from mentioning names but the evidence exists in the testimony of the Life Literature board member). And the culture that permitted knowledge of child molestation and then the subsequent endangering of child welfare at a leadership level, is in fact, an institutional problem. I want CAM to be restored. I want to continue to send our students their to volunteer in good faith...but their must be a few substantial shifts, which I'll speak to in a bit. And I say this with all kindness and love, but your position as an employee of CAM of course, and there is nothing wrong with it it just is what it is, perhaps influences your discernment.

In the department where I work, there are very high standards for personal integrity and screening of applicants. The screening process in our department related to how much one yields to temptation in his thought-life and his past addictions, would probably screen out many folks who post on MN.
The problem here wasn't the screening. That's a non-issue. Leaders at CAM knew. The problem was the burying and non-reporting of the issue. And in so doing endangering the welfare of some of the most vulnerable children on earth.

I personally am not anywhere close to dropping my support or involvement because I still have confidence at this point that CAM will put policies and accountability in place that will keep this kind of thing from slipping through the cracks.


I am curious, what would it take to make you consider dropping your support?
And one final point, the online publicity and broadcasting has consumed extra resources and energy from CAM staff. If people were really interested in helping CAM and the victims, they could have shared their findings with those who are part of the solution. I assume they felt that airing their thoughts and findings publicly was part of the solution, but I think it was a big mistake. I don't think they realize how much more difficult they made the situation. And I don't think they realize how much additional help they were to the Kingdom of Darkness. For the record, I'm talking specifically about the publicity. I'm very much in favor of transparency and of exposing the works of darkness to those who need to know.
Light drives out darkness. I have very little confidence that absent public exposure, any substantial shifts would be forthcoming. Because of the exposure, I am hopeful that as a result of the meeting today, we will get some real shifts. (I'll lay out in a bit what I think those should be). Yes...we don't need to know any lurid details. The simple fact that rank child abuse was prevalent and up to 40 children in Haiti were victimized is sufficient. And that CAM leaders knew before hand that JM had issues with molestation and sent him anyway. And that not once, until the last few weeks, were any of the known crimes reported. (I might add that crimes don't have to be known to be reported. The premise is, if there is suspicion , you report, and let the investigators either clear or convict.)

Here are the key points in my mind that need to be addressed:

1) CAM needs to take responsibility as an institution for endangering the welfare of children and allowing the abuse to continue another 7 years. They must publicly acknowledge that some (however many it is) knew of JM's tendencies and did not report him to the authorities. And what's more, that they allowed him to return to Haiti. This will of course position them poorly in resulting litigation, but it is the truth. And when we are sued we are to give extra as Jesus taught. Further we need not put tons of thought into what we will say if we are taken to court. The right thing is the right thing. And that means apology for CAM's negligence.

2) CAM, the board chair ideally, needs to speak to this personally and publicly with a human face. Directly to the CAM constituents and the victims. They cannot afford to hide behind released "written" lawyered up statements. There must be a public apology for their role in allowing a culture and leadership that permitted this to knowingly happen.

3) All people who knew must be immediately dismissed or tender their resignations. Ideally, the people who supervised the people that knew and didn't report, should also offer their resignations. Whether they are accepted perhaps could be a matter of personal context.

4) CAM should publicly apologize for releasing their "lawyered up" statement designed to avoid future litigation that offered misleading information. As soon as I read that I knew it written by an attorney. And low inference evidence reported by the Shankster's confirms that. That statement was blatantly misleading in that it suggested CAM, as an institution, only recently knew about this. Once again there is witness from 3-4 people that confirm this letter was misleading.

5) They should submit to an outside investigation for this event and all their systems. Including how donor money could be used for "sugar daddy" purposes. Its obvious to any impartial observer that, because CAM leaders knew, an internal investigation is not ideal. A third party would bring more objectivity and accountability.

I am optimistic that the meeting today will result in at least some of the above substantive changes. However, absent the publicity, I am doubtful anything much different would have resulted minus a few technical policy changes.
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Ernie

Re: CAM Molestation Issue

Post by Ernie »

joshuabgood wrote: Here are the key points in my mind that need to be addressed:

1) CAM needs to take responsibility as an institution for endangering the welfare of children and allowing the abuse to continue another 7 years. They must publicly acknowledge that some (however many it is) knew of JM's tendencies and did not report him to the authorities. And what's more, that they allowed him to return to Haiti. This will of course position them poorly in resulting litigation, but it is the truth. And when we are sued we are to give extra as Jesus taught. Further we need not put tons of thought into what we will say if we are taken to court. The right thing is the right thing. And that means apology for CAM's negligence.

2) CAM, the board chair ideally, needs to speak to this personally and publicly with a human face. Directly to the CAM constituents and the victims. They cannot afford to hide behind released "written" lawyered up statements. There must be a public apology for their role in allowing a culture and leadership that permitted this to knowingly happen.

3) All people who knew must be immediately dismissed or tender their resignations. Ideally, the people who supervised the people that knew and didn't report, should also offer their resignations. Whether they are accepted perhaps could be a matter of personal context.

4) CAM should publicly apologize for releasing their "lawyered up" statement designed to avoid future litigation that offered misleading information. As soon as I read that I knew it written by an attorney. And low inference evidence reported by the Shankster's confirms that. That statement was blatantly misleading in that it suggested CAM, as an institution, only recently knew about this. Once again there is witness from 3-4 people that confirm this letter was misleading.

5) They should submit to an outside investigation for this event and all their systems. Including how donor money could be used for "sugar daddy" purposes. Its obvious to any impartial observer that, because CAM leaders knew, an internal investigation is not ideal. A third party would bring more objectivity and accountability.

I am optimistic that the meeting today will result in at least some of the above substantive changes. However, absent the publicity, I am doubtful anything much different would have resulted minus a few technical policy changes.
This is the kind of thing that you can take directly to CAM and others responsible.
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Josh

Re: CAM Molestation Issue

Post by Josh »

Ernie,

How do any of us take this to CAM?

Who there will meet with us?

What accountability and assurances can be provided that what we say will be taken seriously?
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joshuabgood

Re: CAM Molestation Issue

Post by joshuabgood »

Ernie wrote:
joshuabgood wrote: Here are the key points in my mind that need to be addressed:

1) CAM needs to take responsibility as an institution for endangering the welfare of children and allowing the abuse to continue another 7 years. They must publicly acknowledge that some (however many it is) knew of JM's tendencies and did not report him to the authorities. And what's more, that they allowed him to return to Haiti. This will of course position them poorly in resulting litigation, but it is the truth. And when we are sued we are to give extra as Jesus taught. Further we need not put tons of thought into what we will say if we are taken to court. The right thing is the right thing. And that means apology for CAM's negligence.

2) CAM, the board chair ideally, needs to speak to this personally and publicly with a human face. Directly to the CAM constituents and the victims. They cannot afford to hide behind released "written" lawyered up statements. There must be a public apology for their role in allowing a culture and leadership that permitted this to knowingly happen.

3) All people who knew must be immediately dismissed or tender their resignations. Ideally, the people who supervised the people that knew and didn't report, should also offer their resignations. Whether they are accepted perhaps could be a matter of personal context.

4) CAM should publicly apologize for releasing their "lawyered up" statement designed to avoid future litigation that offered misleading information. As soon as I read that I knew it written by an attorney. And low inference evidence reported by the Shankster's confirms that. That statement was blatantly misleading in that it suggested CAM, as an institution, only recently knew about this. Once again there is witness from 3-4 people that confirm this letter was misleading.

5) They should submit to an outside investigation for this event and all their systems. Including how donor money could be used for "sugar daddy" purposes. Its obvious to any impartial observer that, because CAM leaders knew, an internal investigation is not ideal. A third party would bring more objectivity and accountability.

I am optimistic that the meeting today will result in at least some of the above substantive changes. However, absent the publicity, I am doubtful anything much different would have resulted minus a few technical policy changes.
This is the kind of thing that you can take directly to CAM and others responsible.
I have corresponded directly with CAM regarding exactly what I have listed here twice. And did that prior to any public calls.
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Hats Off

Re: CAM Molestation Issue

Post by Hats Off »

Ernie wrote:
Josh wrote:
appleman2006 wrote:[Dan I agree with this and am hoping and praying that it si so. I am glad to hear of today's meeting. If I had any advice for them it would again be this.
1. Anyone that had prior knowledge of thisat both the board level and at administration level needs to, ideally, resign and if not asked to leave.
I have felt this way before, but I'm not sure if this would work now. Simply put, there are way too many people who would have to resign. I don't think bringing in all fresh, new people would fix anything, especially if the new people have the same mindset.

Instead, I think everyone who knew about it needs to be very public about what they knew, when they found out, and a public apology for not responding sooner. Some of those who knew were probably very afraid to go further with their knowledge.
Josh wrote:
IMO this would be three things that could be done immediately without jeopardising the investigation and would show that CAM is indeed taking this very seriously.
I really want CAM to survive and I will continue praying that the right things will be done.
Agreed.

A way forward is to have an independent oversight board and an independent whistleblower organisation that has access to the leadership at the very highest levels of CAM. This is not terribly difficult to set up, and many other organisations have gone through the same changes. There are good resources out there about how to establish this.

One of the responsibilities of such an independent organisation is to help an entity like CAM navigate through problems like false accusations as well. Currently, CAM is completely wide open to false accusations from opportunistic people.
appleman2006 wrote:
Dan Z wrote: I expect something concrete will come out of tomorrow's meeting.

The initial reaction so far, with minimal info, has been a frustration for the supporting community, and was likely due to one or all of the following: 1) ongoing internal investigations that had yet to be completed, 2) requests from law enforcement not to say too much and corrupt their investigations, 3) advice from lawyers concerning protecting CAM and some of its employees from legal and financial jeopardy both in the US and Haiti.

From what I am sensing, I suspect the board and leadership of CAM have heard loud and clear the reaction of their community. Their future as an organization is likely dependent on how quickly, transparently and seriously they handle things from here on forward.
Dan I agree with this and am hoping and praying that it is so. I am glad to hear of today's meeting. If I had any advice for them it would again be this.
1. Anyone that had prior knowledge of this at both the board level and at administration level needs to, ideally, resign and if not asked to leave.
2. if not an immediate change in top leadership at least plans put in place to work towards that.
3. If they do not already have a clear policy in place regarding board terms and limitations thereof a policy must be set in place going forward.

IMO this would be three things that could be done immediately without jeopardising the investigation and would show that CAM is indeed taking this very seriously. I really want CAM to survive and I will continue praying that the right things will be done.
This is the kind of helpful feedback that supporters need to be sharing directly with those who can do something about the matter.
Ernie, could you post a link for Appleman, Joshuabgood, and one or two others who have offered some good suggestions so they can forward directly to the right people at CAM?
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Ernie

Re: CAM Molestation Issue

Post by Ernie »

joshuabgood wrote:And I say this with all kindness and love, but your position as an employee of CAM of course, and there is nothing wrong with it it just is what it is, perhaps influences your discernment.
It is possible.
But I have had my own disappointments with some aspects of CAM and I have not shied away from acknowledging them publicly.
On another occasion I asked for a hearing. The overseers listened well and made changes accordingly.
I can only talk from my experience. I can't speak for others.
joshuabgood wrote: The problem here wasn't the screening. That's a non-issue. Leaders at CAM knew. The problem was the burying and non-reporting of the issue. And in so doing endangering the welfare of some of the most vulnerable children on earth.

That is what boggles the minds of some of us 900. In our departments, this would not have happened.
joshuabgood wrote: I am curious, what would it take to make you consider dropping your support?
If there are no new policies, no new accountability procedures, no new layers of review, and no help for the victims. (as a result of this ordeal)
Light drives out darkness. I have very little confidence that absent public exposure, any substantial shifts would be forthcoming.
That is where we differ. I've seen substantial shifts happen in the past whenever there was negligence or naivete.
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