Anabaptist ordination - lifelong calling?

[Neto]

Where do we get the idea that one must be ordained in order to preach, at least on an occasional basis?

My son, an ordained bishop, says he finds it interesting that when an ordained person gives a discourse, it is a "sermon", but when given by an unordained person it is a "topic".

Being now a part of a congregation where both ordained leadership and unordained men speak at the Sunday morning service, I find it difficult to refer to myself as "preaching a sermon".

If, as a part of what you present, you are urging that some action be take or a behavior changed or adopted, then, I think, it is a 'sermon'.

Stephen's 'message/response' was a rebuke, that, it seems to me, urged a change in behavior. Yes he was 'ordained', but the task he and the other 6 were assigned to was basically to administer the alms. Philip went on into 'foreign evangelism' (both out on the highway and in Samaria), but while he DIDN'T do the baptizing in Samaria, he DID out on the highway. Did he receive a later 'being set apart' between those events? Luke does not tell us, so if he knew, he didn't find it important.

[Judas Maccabeus]

For those of you talking about a lifetime calling, do you actually mean lifetime or do you mean until a certain time in old age? We are implementing an age 70 retirement age in my church; this is new for us and it's not fully implemented; we have had some difficulties and our bishop hasn't been able to retire as early as he was hoping to. He's 71 and probably going to retire next year Lord willing. I have heard that other churches are beginning to do this too, but I don't know specifics.

The basic policy is as follows:

"1. Ordained ministers will offer to retire from normal pastoral responsibility by the age of 70. The pastoral team may accept the offer, or request a brief exception if perceived necessary. To provide overlap of tenure, the ordination of a younger Minister shall proceed the retirement. The retired Minister may continue to accept assignments when called upon.

2. By the time a Bishop/Deacon reaches age 65, he agrees to ordain a replacement for his Bishop/Deacon responsibility. The former Bishop/Deacon will then serve up to 70 years of age as a full team member with the other ministers."

I assume you have retired ordained people preaching as needed.

[Jeff Altweg]

The more conservative an Anabaptist Church is , the bigger the gulf seems to be ,between the ordained men and the laymen...The Amish in particular seem to feel the Bishop is way up there, standing between ordinary members and God...for life...The Amish Bishop is charged specifically to "when you are old and weak,set another up in your place" (in German, of course).....The Amish Church in which I grew up in,and departed from ,in the 1970's ,had a sad situation where the old Bishop, in his mid 70's wouldn't quit, even after he had a stroke that severely affected his speech, When it was his turn ,he'd get up ,and litterly babble for an hour or so , guess it made sense to him ,but not to anyone else . This went on for the better part of a year, until he had another stroke , that completely disabled him....This happened in the late 1980's , not in a marginal Amish Church ,either , but in a very highly thought of district ,

[MattY]

apostles (an office that no longer exists, after the first century)

Are you stating this as an observation of early church history, or making a theological statement?

Theological, but I think it reflects early church history as well. I don't think in the second century there were people claiming to be apostles any longer.

[JohnH]

"Apostle" means "one who is sent"; it certainly seems that churches still ordain people to be sent other places, but they just call them "missionaries" now.

[Ernie]

apostles (an office that no longer exists, after the first century)

Are you stating this as an observation of early church history, or making a theological statement?

Theological, but I think it reflects early church history as well. I don't think in the second century there were people claiming to be apostles any longer.

"Apostle" means "one who is sent"; it certainly seems that churches still ordain people to be sent other places, but they just call them "missionaries" now.

Correct from what I understand. The Didache mentions apostles as itinerant missionaries.

[JohnH]

I do not see a particular reason to use Greek words which now have a different meaning in English. Examples are "bishop", "deacon", "presbyter / priest", and "apostle". These should just mean "supervisor / overseer", "servant / waiter", "old man / older man", and "one who is sent out". But they have rather "loaded" meanings now.

[temporal1]

P.1:

In our experiences after leaving active missionary / Bible translation service, I also struggled with some of this for a number of years. I think now that the problem (at least for me, and possibly for these ministers in a similar manner) is that I came to see myself as first and foremost, maybe even entirely, as 'missionary'. That became the center of my perceived identity - Who I Was. I begged God for another ministry. He said "You are my child." Now, years later, I still get watery eyes thinking about that - it's something that I try to remember and revisit often, because my answer to Him was "Yes, I know that, but I want to DO something". He responded "Just be my child,"

Now-a-days the mission we were with (Wycliffe Bible Translators) meet with members who are returning, especially those who are returning indefinitely. I think they call it 'debriefing'. I probably would have dismissed the importance of that, because my culture was to just 'buck up'. It might have saved me from several years of nearly constant depression, begging God to 'take me'. My advice is that we should ALWAYS remember that we are God's children, and not let anything, even Christian service, take the top spot of how we see ourselves.

When we returned to the States that last time, we wanted to make the last round of church visits to be an overview of our entire time in missionary service, a big thank you for the years of prayer and financial support. So, having been told that "slide shows don't cut it anymore" I spent a good bit of money on video editing and creation hardware and software (including a new computer). I spent weeks learning how to do it, scanning slides & videos, editing, developing the narration, etc., but I don't know if we were asked to show it more than once or maybe twice. I'm not belly aching about it. We were just really surprised to be 'dropped like a hot potato'.

i’m sorry about your disappointment, things like that happen, it can hurt.
i expect some would have great interest in your work, not sure how to connect.

possibly someone (like Honduras Keiser) or others here would have ideas? maybe Adam, who may be back in Papua?
i believe he worked with Wycliffe? i think Ernie keeps in contact? i’m not sure Adam is current with MN.

i hope a good home/outlet will be found. i imagine what you have is a real treasure.
certainly a labor of love.

Adam / The Tone of Posts .. / Other category
viewtopic.php?t=256
^^i think this is where Adam posted the most. Nothing recent.
i receive his newsletters, but haven’t been in contact with him.

[mike]

For those of you talking about a lifetime calling, do you actually mean lifetime or do you mean until a certain time in old age? We are implementing an age 70 retirement age in my church; this is new for us and it's not fully implemented; we have had some difficulties and our bishop hasn't been able to retire as early as he was hoping to. He's 71 and probably going to retire next year Lord willing. I have heard that other churches are beginning to do this too, but I don't know specifics.

The basic policy is as follows:

"1. Ordained ministers will offer to retire from normal pastoral responsibility by the age of 70. The pastoral team may accept the offer, or request a brief exception if perceived necessary. To provide overlap of tenure, the ordination of a younger Minister shall proceed the retirement. The retired Minister may continue to accept assignments when called upon.

2. By the time a Bishop/Deacon reaches age 65, he agrees to ordain a replacement for his Bishop/Deacon responsibility. The former Bishop/Deacon will then serve up to 70 years of age as a full team member with the other ministers."

Yes, until a certain age. In our conference, it's 70, and there's a transition period similar to yours that might vary depending on what the ordained role is.

[danfreed]

This is an interesting thread for me, having observed various leadership situations, including nomination and "lot casting" procedures.
Casting lots in many conservative Anabaptist churches is usually for lifelong ordination, but not always. (In one situation in the 1990s, our CMC/Rosedale Network affiliated church used "the lot" for a term-limited Elder appointment).

The most helpful Bible passage for me, related to this the subject of church organization and function, is 1 Corinthians 12:5-6.
In the King James English Bible...
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

In a more modern translation (NLT), with additional context, is helpful as well.

4There are different kinds of spiritual gifts, but the same Spirit is the source of them all. 5There are different kinds of service, but we serve the same Lord. 6God works in different ways, but it is the same God who does the work in all of us.
7A spiritual gift is given to each of us so we can help each other. 8To one person the Spirit gives the ability to give wise advice; to another the same Spirit gives a message of special knowledge. 9The same Spirit gives great faith to another, and to someone else the one Spirit gives the gift of healing. 10He gives one person the power to perform miracles, and another the ability to prophesy. He gives someone else the ability to discern whether a message is from the Spirit of God or from another spirit. Still another person is given the ability to speak in unknown languages, while another is given the ability to interpret what is being said. 11It is the one and only Spirit who distributes all these gifts. He alone decides which gift each person should have.


I think that we as the church could be more focused on helping every person use his/her Holy Spirit-given abilities for the glory of Jesus, advancement of His message, and for helping each other.

More, more about Jesus.
Let Him lead each of us individually, and collectively.
Organizational structures can vary, but Jesus alone is Lord of lords.