Anabaptist perspective of the Creation narrative?

[Wayne in Maine]

I disagree with what you are asserting and I'm enlisting the consistency police against you.

You assert that the earth is quite young, based on a "literal" reading of Genesis (exactly how young is the Universe, I can't find a precise number in Genesis?). Yet you reject the obvious description of the universe as written in plain simple Hebrew in the same book.

Christians, long before Darwin and his theory of evolution, questioned the "scientific" value of Genesis based on observations of geology and astronomy. That is why we do not believe in the description of the universe as given in Genesis, and why we need not believe that the universe is a mere 6000-1000 years old. This has nothing to do with evolution.

You refuse to answer questions and question Scripture. As far as I know, you believe all of the old Testament miracles could be naturalistically explained which inevitably suggests that the New could be rationally explained away using the same logic. I know you believe in the New Testament, why is the Old Testament subject to disbelief?

A plausible explanation exists but you rejected it and chose to accept the same scientists who argue and support evolution despite claiming you disagree with their observations.

Those observations would come to the same conclusions flawed as they are if you were to observe Adam after he was created.

What questions have I refused to answer? When did I assert that "all of the old Testament miracles could be nationalistically explained" and why does my questioning the scientific accuracy and meaning of the Genesis account of creation (and the Genesis cosmology, which you likewise reject) mean that "the New [Testament]could be rationally explained away"?

What plausible explanation is there for all of the evidence (from tree rings, lake varves, geologic layers, elemental decayand to simple physical evidence) that the universe, including the earth, is more than 6000-10,000 years old?

[Wayne in Maine]

I don’t recall seeing a verse stating that the Universe is somewhere around 6000 years old.

I believe the Scripture gives admonition not to argue about genealogy otherwise I would.

Very cute... who is refusing to answer questions?

[Soloist]

I don’t recall seeing a verse stating that the Universe is somewhere around 6000 years old.

I believe the Scripture gives admonition not to argue about genealogy otherwise I would.

Very cute... who is refusing to answer questions?

Okay, since you insist, explain to me the genealogy given in Genesis along with the ages why it does not accurately reflect the age of the creation?

What questions have I refused to answer? When did I assert that "all of the old Testament miracles could be nationalistically explained" and why does my questioning the scientific accuracy and meaning of the Genesis account of creation (and the Genesis cosmology, which you likewise reject) mean that "the New [Testament]could be rationally explained away"?

What plausible explanation is there for all of the evidence (from tree rings, lake varves, geologic layers, elemental decayand to simple physical evidence) that the universe, including the earth, is more than 6000-10,000 years old?

I also don't reject the cosmology described, I just come to different conclusions about the meaning as do many others. You hold a position of mocking those who would believe in flat earth and I think the description given is not clear enough to make exact statements of round or flat.

God created an aged earth. You already rejected this as I stated.

You refused to answer questions posed here viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3757 so don't try to say you refused to answer. Just answer the question and then we will know your answer... What miracles in the Old Testament do you believe happened how its described?

You refused to answer any explanation of the creation of man and if Adam was the first man from whom all humanity descended.

You talk about how believing in the Genesis account is off turning to people yet you are off turning by mocking those who would believe a "simplistic" explanation.
So... Can you actually remove the "intellectualism" bias and answer the three questions posed to you about Biblical beliefs?

[joshuabgood]

Some might ask why would God make a an earth/universe look old when it isn't actually old? Why would he make "fake" supernova exist?

[Soloist]

Some might ask why would God make a an earth/universe look old when it isn't actually old? Why would he make "fake" supernova exist?

Did God make an egg? or a chicken?

Did God make rock? or dirt?

Did God make an adult? or a baby?

Did God make a tree? or a seed?

Would the chicken represent a biological age of an egg or an adult chicken?

Would the dirt represent the isotope age of dirt? or of a rock?

Would the adult represent the biological age of a baby? or an adult?

would the tree have rings?

[RZehr]

And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

[joshuabgood]

And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Some would say the point isn't if God can do a miracle like "dead raising." The point is if he would create a "fake history."

Some might think if God created a giant tree ex nihilo that it would not in fact have a fake history with rings, evidence of fires in the past, lean years, healthy years, etc --- when there was none. Or an old man with wrinkles, scars of "fake injuries" etc.

[Soloist]

And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Some would say the point isn't if God can do a miracle like "dead raising." The point is if he would create a "fake history."

Some might think if God created a giant tree ex nihilo that it would not in fact have a fake history with rings, evidence of fires in the past, lean years, healthy years, etc --- when there was none. Or an old man with wrinkles, scars of "fake injuries" etc.

so does the some include you?

Do you believe Adam had a belly button? Eve? How large was their thymus?

Edit: these questions are a little silly, I'm more interested in the response to my set of questions and the questions to Wayne

[joshuabgood]

No one is saying God can't do miracles like the resurrection. That point is a red herring of sorts. Of course God could have created fake histories of fake events, like supernova, but it sure doesn't seem to fit with his character. And it actually isn't taught expressly in the scriptures, so why the fervent dedication to Yecism? That is the question?

Further Ham en company have no issue waving away the plain teachings of Jesus, so their motive clearly seems like something apart from a literal hermeneutic. What is it. When one looks at the amusement park themed it seems perhaps other issues are at stake.

[Pelerin]

Some might ask why would God make a an earth/universe look old when it isn't actually old? Why would he make "fake" supernova exist?

This line never made much sense to me. Why would Jesus make wine when it never actually aged from grape juice? Grape juice that was never actually pressed from grapes that were never actually picked from vines that never actually were planted?

I don’t see anything wrong with accepting that things can happen in more than one way or that miracles somehow imply deception. To simply say, “God did it that way,” seems far more preferable and honest to me than concocting some half-cooked theory about instantaneous fermentation in ANE stone jars—or, say, about how the speed of light actually varied over the last six thousand years, as the Certain Someone were all thinking of has done.