Protesting

[Valerie]

Okay- what do you call what the Anabaptists did during the Protestant Reformation?
Wasn't it a kind of protesting? I read where they would show up and 'talk over' priests?
What is the difference between 'movements' and 'protests'?

Not everything the Anabaptists did during the Protestant Reformation was wise...

Well from what I read, it was anything but quiet.
Now the quiet in the land......

[Wade]

In regards to protesting I see it only as reactive. I see in the context of Jesus saying to not resist evil and to love our enemies as a call in our lives to be busy in proactively and actively loving others. Our motivation is rooted in the love of God. And motivation that involves reaction, which I believe protesting does(peaceful or not), is actually disobeying Christ as far as I understand Him because it is reactive.

Based on interactions with the state by Christians in the New Testament, we have biblical precedent for Christians making appeals to civic leaders. I can't think of any examples of NT Christians engaging in mass protests.

I'm not sure if being "reactive" is disobedient to Christ. That's a new thought to me, but I do like the proactive versus reactive idea. The mandate we have as Christians is a proactive mandate:

All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.

We clearly should be out there teaching and making disciples of Jesus. This activity may well be in the public eye depending on the format. We should take the opportunity to teach wherever we can.

Where I am uncomfortable with being reactive is that in context of Christ saying to not resist evil - he first references an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth - which was a reactive approach.

Matthew 5: 38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Not only was it reactive but in the first time an eye for an eye is mentioned in scripture it was towards someone who harmed a baby while in a mothers womb which would seem much more deserving of consequence.

Exodus 21: 22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

Since He used in it the context of an eye for an eye the point of not being reactive seems emphasized to me.

The other side of my understanding is that I tell atheists that whatever controls them is their god. Being reactive can have the affect of letting something else control you beside the one true God and that is how I feel for myself to protest it would be disobedient to what He has called us to.

[temporal1]

i intended to add this quote to my Page 1 questions. forgot.

[Ernie]

Is there a difference between mass protesting (linking arms with people of all stripes including sinners) and protesting as an individual like the OT prophets or like Paul in the NT?

What if everyone who protested in mass in 2020, would have written letters to their civil leaders, stood outside a state building with a sign, used a bullhorn, used social media, etc. all across America? And rather than attack the people they don't like, what if they would have addressed principles that should be followed?

I'm guessing that the net effect/results would have been more positive to-date.

[Joy]

You talk about keeping destructive impulses at bay and then post a picture of a person well known for his adultery?

For what shall it profit a man, if He shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
Mark 8:36

You know full well I was talking about property destruction and violence at protests, and not the personal shortcomings of the leaders. And unlike you, I am not prepared to judge the soul of Martin Luther King. I'm sure, whatever his shortcomings, he was a better man than I.

Since you brought him up in another thread, let me respond to your comment that the Rev. Martin Luther King was a better man than you. I hope not. According to one of his closest friends, who wrote a book about him as I recall, King was in bed with three women the night before his murder. Jesus pronounces the harshest judgments, not on prostitutes and drunkards, but on religious leaders who preach one thing and live another.

[Wade]

Is there a difference between mass protesting (linking arms with people of all stripes including sinners) and protesting as an individual like the OT prophets or like Paul in the NT?

There is a huge difference!

What if everyone who protested in mass in 2020, would have written letters to their civil leaders, stood outside a state building with a sign, used a bullhorn, used social media, etc. all across America? And rather than attack the people they don't like, what if they would have addressed principles that should be followed?

What if all professing Christians spent all their time loving God and loving their neighbours in real practical ways God calls us to? I think that light would have made much more of a difference. Trusting Him in prayer and action I think is infinitely and eternally more impactful than addressing political things at all. I don't think Christ called us to sway leaders in decisions whatsoever - our call is to submit to them. A personal call directly to them to repent of sin in person - yes. But letters, I don't think so.

I'm guessing that the net effect/results would have been more positive to-date.

[temporal1]

Is there a difference between mass protesting (linking arms with people of all stripes including sinners) and protesting as an individual like the OT prophets or like Paul in the NT?

There is a huge difference!

What if everyone who protested in mass in 2020, would have written letters to their civil leaders, stood outside a state building with a sign, used a bullhorn, used social media, etc. all across America? And rather than attack the people they don't like, what if they would have addressed principles that should be followed?

What if all professing Christians spent all their time loving God and loving their neighbours in real practical ways God calls us to? I think that light would have made much more of a difference.

Trusting Him in prayer and action I think is infinitely and eternally more impactful than addressing political things at all.

I don't think Christ called us to sway leaders in decisions whatsoever - our call is to submit to them.
A personal call directly to them to repent of sin in person - yes. But letters, I don't think so.

I'm guessing that the net effect/results would have been more positive to-date.

Wade and Ernie, you each seek personal and literal commitment to Jesus’ radical Way.
It’s significant. without question, the world tempts to “everything-but.” in every waking moment.

You try to be exceptions to Chesterton’s quote above. You seek the literal narrow path.
You aren’t alone. Your willingness to share here about it, about the rewards and challenges, encourages and invites thinking. soul-searching.

[JimFoxvog]

But, if you think most of today’s organized protesters aren’t after control of law and the public treasury, on an educated+professional level, I believe you are wildly mistaken.

I’m so very sorry to say.

When a lot of us line the street standing silently with signs against abortion, provided by the local Catholic church, we are primarily asking for hearts to change, not control of law. When our peace vigil has a sign "Pray for Peace" we are not looking for control of law or the public treasury. You may be correct about some "of today’s organized protesters" but not the vast majority that I have come in contact with. The goals are peace and justice.

[JimFoxvog]

Based on interactions with the state by Christians in the New Testament, we have biblical precedent for Christians making appeals to civic leaders. I can't think of any examples of NT Christians engaging in mass protests.

I agree--mostly on technical grounds.

The Palm Sunday triumphant entry would have included many of Jesus' followers. But they were not believers in the resurrection (yet), nor did many of them proclaim "Jesus is Lord" (yet). So you are probably right in not calling them "Christians". The Romans and the Sanhedrin certainly considered the march on Jerusalem as a mass protest even if we like to look at it in different terms.

Yes, there are not mass protests after the resurrection. A mass movement of Christians away from Jerusalem was for safety, not a public protest.

[Wade]

I was asked if I agree with the march for life protests. No, I don't.
I agree with stopping the materialism and investing into people's lives by showing them love and support.
One thing I found incredibly unhelpful as a new Christian was other Christians telling me what to do and change in my life without helping.
If I tell someone not to abort:
- am I prepared to adopt that child or many?
- am I prepared to house a single pregnant mother or many?
- am I prepared to physically pay for the needs of these people?
- am I prepared to help people who have aborted emotionally and spiritually?

I believe this is what Christ calls us to do. He never protested but rather healed and helped each person individually. He worked from the bottom - not the top - hence the upside down Kingdom.


9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
James 2:9

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, He is guilty of all.
James 2:10

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
James 2:15

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
James 2:16

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:17