First I have to look up what anachronistic meansohio jones wrote:1683 - First permanent Mennonite settlement, Germantown PA
1718 - Penn dies
1730s-1760s - My Amish ancestors arrive in PA
1775 - Revolutionary war begins
1781 - Articles of Confederation ratified, forming the United States
Penn did promote freedom of religion in his colony. He was probably living at the time, though, which would have made it long before the Revolution.Valerie wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, and I may be remembering wrong, wasn't William Penn instrumental in welcoming Anabaptists here?
So explain to us again howis not anachronistic with respect to Josh's comment about the myth of the Revolutionary War.Valerie wrote:it was that government 'here' that brought the Anabaptists 'here'.
Lessons for the Church from the DC Riots
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Valerie
Re: Lessons for the Church from the DC Riots
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Valerie
Re: Lessons for the Church from the DC Riots
Apparently I have to relearn history and then fit the many waves of Anabaptists arriving here- you know what? I think it may have been at Behalt this was explained (regarding William Penn)Valerie wrote:First I have to look up what anachronistic meansohio jones wrote:1683 - First permanent Mennonite settlement, Germantown PA
1718 - Penn dies
1730s-1760s - My Amish ancestors arrive in PA
1775 - Revolutionary war begins
1781 - Articles of Confederation ratified, forming the United States
Penn did promote freedom of religion in his colony. He was probably living at the time, though, which would have made it long before the Revolution.Valerie wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, and I may be remembering wrong, wasn't William Penn instrumental in welcoming Anabaptists here?
So explain to us again howis not anachronistic with respect to Josh's comment about the myth of the Revolutionary War.Valerie wrote:it was that government 'here' that brought the Anabaptists 'here'.
Anyways- it gave the impression they were welcomed here by some type of an established government that had begun, albeit before 'officially' established after the Revolutionary War.
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RZehr
Re: Lessons for the Church from the DC Riots
Hint. The government when they arrive, or as you put it -
What government was that? It was the red party.
would most likely have been surprised and alarmed to hear that they were only filling a non-official, and as a temporary placeholder, for a coming government.some type of an established government
What government was that? It was the red party.
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Judas Maccabeus
Re: Lessons for the Church from the DC Riots
The post revolutionary war migration of Mennonites to Ontario is likely because they were so "welcomed" by the new government.ohio jones wrote:1683 - First permanent Mennonite settlement, Germantown PA
1718 - Penn dies
1730s-1760s - My Amish ancestors arrive in PA
1775 - Revolutionary war begins
1781 - Articles of Confederation ratified, forming the United States
Penn did promote freedom of religion in his colony. He was probably living at the time, though, which would have made it long before the Revolution.Valerie wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, and I may be remembering wrong, wasn't William Penn instrumental in welcoming Anabaptists here?
So explain to us again howis not anachronistic with respect to Josh's comment about the myth of the Revolutionary War.Valerie wrote:it was that government 'here' that brought the Anabaptists 'here'.
J.M.
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Josh
Re: Lessons for the Church from the DC Riots
I think most Mennonites (and others) would agree that lots of Mennonites have had less-than-stellar character and made big mistakes; but the point stands that Mennonite and Amish identity, essentially, revolves around nonresistance, and always has. People on the edges who do things like attend BLM or Trump rallies do exist, or enlist to fight in World War I or II, but do not really define the core of Mennonite identity.Ken wrote:Yes. But I also suspect some of Mennonite history (as cited above) is written with some of the same rose colored glasses I'm not convinced that historic Mennonites were always so noble as our histories teach. Some were, sure. I'm talking about the average folks, not those who got their names into the history books. Listing to my elder relatives and sitting through religious history classes in college I suspect that Mennonites have some of the same blinders about their past too,Josh wrote:Yep. America is founded on the myth that the Revolutionary War was somehow good; people who believe that either have to exist in a kind of schizoprenia that yesterday's activities weren't a good thing (but somehow rebelling against the government in the first place was a good thing), or else basically give it their support, believing violent revolutions to somehow bring about peace and justice to the earth.
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Valerie
Re: Lessons for the Church from the DC Riots
I don't know why they enlisted in wars- I only know the Amish and formers that were supportive of Trump was to protect the Christian values that the Left wants to continue to do away with. That's not the same as war.Josh wrote:I think most Mennonites (and others) would agree that lots of Mennonites have had less-than-stellar character and made big mistakes; but the point stands that Mennonite and Amish identity, essentially, revolves around nonresistance, and always has. People on the edges who do things like attend BLM or Trump rallies do exist, or enlist to fight in World War I or II, but do not really define the core of Mennonite identity.Ken wrote:Yes. But I also suspect some of Mennonite history (as cited above) is written with some of the same rose colored glasses I'm not convinced that historic Mennonites were always so noble as our histories teach. Some were, sure. I'm talking about the average folks, not those who got their names into the history books. Listing to my elder relatives and sitting through religious history classes in college I suspect that Mennonites have some of the same blinders about their past too,Josh wrote:Yep. America is founded on the myth that the Revolutionary War was somehow good; people who believe that either have to exist in a kind of schizoprenia that yesterday's activities weren't a good thing (but somehow rebelling against the government in the first place was a good thing), or else basically give it their support, believing violent revolutions to somehow bring about peace and justice to the earth.
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Ken
- Posts: 21863
- Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am
- Location: Washington State
- Affiliation: former MCUSA
Re: Lessons for the Church from the DC Riots
I'm not arguing that point. Just pointing out that church history (and family history) is often as carefully curated to match a narrative as American history is.Josh wrote:I think most Mennonites (and others) would agree that lots of Mennonites have had less-than-stellar character and made big mistakes; but the point stands that Mennonite and Amish identity, essentially, revolves around nonresistance, and always has. People on the edges who do things like attend BLM or Trump rallies do exist, or enlist to fight in World War I or II, but do not really define the core of Mennonite identity.Ken wrote:Yes. But I also suspect some of Mennonite history (as cited above) is written with some of the same rose colored glasses I'm not convinced that historic Mennonites were always so noble as our histories teach. Some were, sure. I'm talking about the average folks, not those who got their names into the history books. Listing to my elder relatives and sitting through religious history classes in college I suspect that Mennonites have some of the same blinders about their past too,Josh wrote:Yep. America is founded on the myth that the Revolutionary War was somehow good; people who believe that either have to exist in a kind of schizoprenia that yesterday's activities weren't a good thing (but somehow rebelling against the government in the first place was a good thing), or else basically give it their support, believing violent revolutions to somehow bring about peace and justice to the earth.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
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hillperson
Re: Lessons for the Church from the DC Riots
I wonder if it would have been better to put their complete trust in God... and not a political figure. After the election I heard a pastor (he was non menno) say that Trump losing the election may be the best thing for the church ....Valerie wrote:I don't know why they enlisted in wars- I only know the Amish and formers that were supportive of Trump was to protect the Christian values that the Left wants to continue to do away with. That's not the same as war.Josh wrote:I think most Mennonites (and others) would agree that lots of Mennonites have had less-than-stellar character and made big mistakes; but the point stands that Mennonite and Amish identity, essentially, revolves around nonresistance, and always has. People on the edges who do things like attend BLM or Trump rallies do exist, or enlist to fight in World War I or II, but do not really define the core of Mennonite identity.Ken wrote:
Yes. But I also suspect some of Mennonite history (as cited above) is written with some of the same rose colored glasses I'm not convinced that historic Mennonites were always so noble as our histories teach. Some were, sure. I'm talking about the average folks, not those who got their names into the history books. Listing to my elder relatives and sitting through religious history classes in college I suspect that Mennonites have some of the same blinders about their past too,
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Ernie
Re: Lessons for the Church from the DC Riots
Lessons for the church:
Don't get swept with movements and agendas. It may end badly.
Just keep being the hands and feet of Jesus. Just keep proclaiming the Good News. Just keep making disciples of all nations.
In God we trust! (this should truly describe the church and not just be a moniker.)
"Some trust in chariots and some in horses, but we will remember the Name of the Lord our God."
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." (I believe this verse applies to spiritual forces, not political forces.)
Don't get swept with movements and agendas. It may end badly.
Just keep being the hands and feet of Jesus. Just keep proclaiming the Good News. Just keep making disciples of all nations.
In God we trust! (this should truly describe the church and not just be a moniker.)
"Some trust in chariots and some in horses, but we will remember the Name of the Lord our God."
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." (I believe this verse applies to spiritual forces, not political forces.)
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Re: Lessons for the Church from the DC Riots
When I look at the root cause of the riot it was this: these people fundamentally believed the election was stolen, and in all honesty, from a non-anabaptist perspective, if what they think would actually be true then a revolution would be in order. But it isn’t true, and many people have been lying to them for their own gain. Their right wing media lies to them, their politicians lie to them and they bought it all. And then suddenly the monster the media and politicians created could no longer be contained.hillperson wrote:What are lessons we can learn from the riots in DC on January 6. So far our discussions are about what happened, who was right, who was wrong. Historically we as Anabaptists know politics is no place for the church. With the current president many Anabaptists have been getting more and more involved.
Where should the church find themselves while the heathen rage? You know as the night grows darker true Christianity will shine brighter.
So when I look for lessons it is this: we must beware the monsters we create. We must beware the stories we tell, the arguments we use, the lessons we teach.
As examples:
1: do we teach total obedience to authority, leaving those abused by authority with nowhere to go?
2: do we preach a doctrine of separation from the world that leaves us unable to connect with the world around us and fulfill the commands of Matthew 25:35-36.
I’m not saying we do those things, but that’s the type of danger I mean when I talk about creating monsters.
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