Poll: Concealed Weapons among Plain Anabaptists?

[Josh]

I'd reject them outright if I sat on a draft board - the Conscientious Objector ice is pretty thin under a Mennonite who chooses to pack concealed heat.

You may be revealing your political bias here. Whilst my church takes a hard stance on this, there are legitimate reasons in Ohio to hold an LCCH that have nothing to do with self defence.

I don't know the terminology but I'm assuming an LCCH is a license to conceal carry a handgun or something like that. I'd be interested in hearing more about the legitimate reasons for a non-resistant Christian to license and carry a concealed weapon.

My "bias," by the way, comes from the non-resistant teachings of Christ and his apostles. As an Anabaptist brother I would have thought you would have understood that. Frankly, seeing it as a "political bias" may say more about your own political worldview than mine.

Well, here’s the reason I heard, that is very specific to Ohio law. Someone wanted to carry a full frame .45 in their car in case they had to deal with a wild animal. Ohio laws basically required an LCCH to do certain things including carrying a rifle and ammunition together in the same compartment of your car (still has to be unloaded). If you don’t have one there are a lot more restrictions.

The person who told me this was quite plain and seemingly dedicated to nonresistance and thought this was a very good explanation. I was a bit perplexed, since I had gone through the process to cancel my own LCCH. The sheriff had never had anyone even ask before and didn’t have forms to fill out for it.

[Josh]

Oh, and this was in an unaffiliated intermediate-conservative type of church.

[Ernie]

What does LCCH stand for? Can't find it when I google.

[Josh]

What does LCCH stand for? Can't find it when I google.

License to Carry a Concealed Handgun, an Ohio thing.

[Ken]

You may be revealing your political bias here. Whilst my church takes a hard stance on this, there are legitimate reasons in Ohio to hold an LCCH that have nothing to do with self defence.

I don't know the terminology but I'm assuming an LCCH is a license to conceal carry a handgun or something like that. I'd be interested in hearing more about the legitimate reasons for a non-resistant Christian to license and carry a concealed weapon.

My "bias," by the way, comes from the non-resistant teachings of Christ and his apostles. As an Anabaptist brother I would have thought you would have understood that. Frankly, seeing it as a "political bias" may say more about your own political worldview than mine.

Well, here’s the reason I heard, that is very specific to Ohio law. Someone wanted to carry a full frame .45 in their car in case they had to deal with a wild animal. Ohio laws basically required an LCCH to do certain things including carrying a rifle and ammunition together in the same compartment of your car (still has to be unloaded). If you don’t have one there are a lot more restrictions.

The person who told me this was quite plain and seemingly dedicated to nonresistance and thought this was a very good explanation. I was a bit perplexed, since I had gone through the process to cancel my own LCCH. The sheriff had never had anyone even ask before and didn’t have forms to fill out for it.

OK Josh, here in the US, in the past decade, how many wild animal attacks have there been in the US on people in their cars? Other than idiot tourists who antagonize bears and bison in Yellowstone National Park? But you are talking about Ohio. What are people afraid of there? Coyotes? If so, bring a canister of pepper spray. That's what they are made for.

People can carry firearms if it's legal. I really don't care. It's not a high priority issue for me one way or the other. But keeping a massive handgun in your vehicle because of wild animals? in Ohio? Yeah, sure. That's sounds like the flip side of all those pot-heads who used to carry medical pot licenses out here on the west coast before it was legal. Yeah, sure. Your "anxiety" requires that you have a prescription to smoke pot every night. OK.

[ragpicker]

I don't know the terminology but I'm assuming an LCCH is a license to conceal carry a handgun or something like that. I'd be interested in hearing more about the legitimate reasons for a non-resistant Christian to license and carry a concealed weapon.

My "bias," by the way, comes from the non-resistant teachings of Christ and his apostles. As an Anabaptist brother I would have thought you would have understood that. Frankly, seeing it as a "political bias" may say more about your own political worldview than mine.

Well, here’s the reason I heard, that is very specific to Ohio law. Someone wanted to carry a full frame .45 in their car in case they had to deal with a wild animal. Ohio laws basically required an LCCH to do certain things including carrying a rifle and ammunition together in the same compartment of your car (still has to be unloaded). If you don’t have one there are a lot more restrictions.

The person who told me this was quite plain and seemingly dedicated to nonresistance and thought this was a very good explanation. I was a bit perplexed, since I had gone through the process to cancel my own LCCH. The sheriff had never had anyone even ask before and didn’t have forms to fill out for it.

OK Josh, here in the US, in the past decade, how many wild animal attacks have there been in the US on people in their cars? Other than idiot tourists who antagonize bears and bison in Yellowstone National Park? But you are talking about Ohio. What are people afraid of there? Coyotes? If so, bring a canister of pepper spray. That's what they are made for.

People can carry firearms if it's legal. I really don't care. It's not a high priority issue for me one way or the other. But keeping a massive handgun in your vehicle because of wild animals? in Ohio? Yeah, sure. That's sounds like the flip side of all those pot-heads who used to carry medical pot licenses out here on the west coast before it was legal. Yeah, sure. Your "anxiety" requires that you have a prescription to smoke pot every night. OK.

Some people have a “be prepared” mindset. I’m one of them. I’m used to people like you not understanding. It’s irritating when people who don’t understand choose to scoff, rather than just move along.

I live in Ohio. I’ve been very grateful for a handgun on my truck. I wish it had been a larger caliber and I plan to upgrade soon. But yes, I had the need to shoot a large animal at 5:00 one morning. People like you wring your hands or call for help. People like me pull out the gun and take care of business. I don’t look down on you, you are who you are. Can you give those of us who choose preparedness the same room?

[ken_sylvania]

I’m serious. I can’t find anyone directly asking SSS what the CO status of a CW or LCCH permit holder would be.

I was under the impression that a number of years ago, during one of the annual calls that the Holdemans have with the Selective Service, that topic came up, and that the Selective Service folks stated that they would consider applying for a license to carry a concealed weapon to disqualify someone to be a CO.

Although really, all I know about that incident in particular is what I read on the internet.

Well you should know by now that you can believe everything you read on the internet.

Really! What a disappointment.

[ken_sylvania]

I’m serious. I can’t find anyone directly asking SSS what the CO status of a CW or LCCH permit holder would be.

I was under the impression that a number of years ago, during one of the annual calls that the Holdemans have with the Selective Service, that topic came up, and that the Selective Service folks stated that they would consider applying for a license to carry a concealed weapon to disqualify someone to be a CO.

Although really, all I know about that incident in particular is what I read on the internet.

When I inquired further the discussion was only about actually carrying weapons, not about the details of having a permit. Permits are a state level law thing. In Ohio the register of them is secret and only the county sheriff knows - although that sheriff might be sitting on the draft board.

Thanks for the clarification.

[RZehr]

Some people in Oregon carry a firearm in their vehicles. In the old days, we used gun racks on the back window of a pickup. Today, it is best to not have it in view, because someone might think you are something you aren’t, or someone might steal it. So nowadays, it is smarter to not hang it in the window for all the world to see.
It is wiser to keep it hidden if you don’t want it stolen.
A man I know here in Oregon had one under his seat. He was given a citation because that was “concealed” and if you want to have a firearm in your vehicle in Oregon it has to either be visible, or you have to have a concealed weapons permit.
I am not comfortable at all with nonresistant people have conceal weapons permits. I mostly keep my rifle visible, and if I decide to put it under the seat, I’ll risk the citation.

[Ken]

Some people have a “be prepared” mindset. I’m one of them. I’m used to people like you not understanding. It’s irritating when people who don’t understand choose to scoff, rather than just move along.

I live in Ohio. I’ve been very grateful for a handgun on my truck. I wish it had been a larger caliber and I plan to upgrade soon. But yes, I had the need to shoot a large animal at 5:00 one morning. People like you wring your hands or call for help. People like me pull out the gun and take care of business. I don’t look down on you, you are who you are. Can you give those of us who choose preparedness the same room?

Sure, carry all the weapons you want. I don't care. There was a time when I carried firearms too, while working in the field in Southeast Alaska and on Kodiak Island.

But yes, I will continue to scoff at the idea that one needs to keep firearms in a vehicle in the lower 48 for "wild animals" unless one includes humans and dogs in the category of "wild animals." In ranch country where Rzehr lives it may be handy from time to time to have a firearm to put down sick or injured sheep or cattle, or livestock struck on the highway in open range country. But those aren't wild animals.

Wild animal attacks are something for which the CDC keeps data and people study carefully. The most recent meta study of the topic was published last fall. Here it is: https://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/view ... ontext=hwi

By far the most common animal attacks in the US are by dogs, followed by farm animals and venomous snakes and insects. Wild mammal attacks of the sort that a firearm might be useful protection against are exceedingly rare, and rarer still around vehicles and highways as opposed to the remote back country.

Sure, carry a weapon if you want protection in the back country from meth heads and other criminal elements. That is understandable. I see plenty of creepy individuals in the backwoods of southwest Washington. Dogs also, although pepper spray is probably a better bet than dropping someone's prized pit bull in front of their house. I just don't buy the argument that it is necessary to carry a concealed firearm in a vehicle in the lower 48 for "wild animals" You are more likely to be struck by lightning or a meteor than be attacked by a wild animal in the lower 48 that could be repelled by a handgun. Around here, cougar attacks are probably the most frightening and most people attacked by cougars never even see or hear them coming so firearms wouldn't have been of use anyway

Here are the relevant stats from the paper: