Anabaptist Sex Offender Watch List

[Aurien]

I think an organization like this needs to be involved NOW.
https://www.netgrace.org/independent-investigations

If you're a leader in an Anabaptist community or know leaders who want change to happen then please strongly consider trying to get G.R.A.C.E. or a similar non Anabaptist organization involved.

People's responses to the list Trudy wants to make are because they are tired of sexual abuse being covered up and of serial offenders being allowed to go on to abuse others. WAKE UP! STAND UP! Protect children and adults who have been abused sexually, physically, or emotionally. Yes emotional abuse is very damaging too. If you know that someone has been abusing minors then report it to the law NOW. I don't know about the police but I know that reports to Child Protective Services or whatever they're called in your area can be made anonymously. If you know someone who had abused minors who are now adults then report it NOW. It's unlikely that they have stopped their behavior. If you know about adults who are currently being sexually abused then I'm posting some links below that will hopefully be helpful. I don't agree with RAINN's stance on LGBTQ and things like that but I still think they have some good resources.

https://rainn.org/articles/tips-talking ... 1560335830
https://www.rainn.org/articles/reportin ... nforcement
https://www.rainn.org/articles/help-som ... care-about
https://www.rainn.org/articles/warning- ... g-children

[temporal1]

A similar list already exists, easily found by searching the web. It appears to be limited to cases supported by credible documentation, some of which is posted. I would be very surprised if Trudy is unaware of its existence. Do we really need another, more secretive list?

Trudy’s initial idea is worth serious consideration.
She kinda sabotaged it by wanting to include those accused. That’s really not a good idea.

One reason it might be useful specific to this setting is the nature of CA’s to avoid gov and typical public methods, including the internet, combined with a particular interest in keepng up with CA news and activities. This week’s interest on MN reflects that.

i’m not sure how secret it would be, but it would be created for a particular group, and would have special meaning within that group.

Not a bad idea for RCC and other denoms, too. Worth thinking through.

In the 90’s, i was disgusted to hear the pope speak so .. (moderately?) .. about child predators, pointing out, to paraphrase, “sin is sin,” etc. i recall thinking, i know of no parents who do not believe child predators and abusers have specially bad sins. even the Hell’s Angels draw the line at child abuse! not to forget about scriptural millstones.

Certainly such lists can impact lives.
Lives NEED to be impacted! (For proven and convicted crimes.) That should be the point.
Lives were forever changed by these sins/crimes. A list of perps is not asking too much.

Change is the goal. Warnings, with names, could help prevent victims.

No truly repentant person would object to honest disclosure. Painful, yes. Sin hurts.

The net effect might lead to improved healing. So far, the track record on that has been abyssmal with these types of crimes, no matter setting.

This might be a good poll topic, with well-composed options.
Many seem to weigh-in on polls who do not otherwise post their thoughts.

[Matt]

Like I said earlier, I understand the emotion in the desire for this list. I believe a list like this is ripe for unintended consequences which should be evaluated at length before any action is taken.

[temporal1]

Like I said earlier, I understand the emotion in the desire for this list. I believe a list like this is ripe for unintended consequences which should be evaluated at length before any action is taken.

i’m all for thought before and after. not enough of that these days.
perhaps a trial period, with points to review and reconsider?
an expiration date to either extend, make permanent, or dissolve?

i’d like to see this as routine for all the many social experiments created today.
many experiments are foisted on children, sitting ducks, now primary targets, for lawmakers.
i loathe this.

i’d like to see admission that attempts are EXPERIMENTS, rather than put in place as tho they are settled science, with no way out, short of an “Act of Congress.”

i want to clarify.
i’m afraid i’m mixing things up, between what is gov-mandated, and what (i think Trudy is suggesting) - a faith-based list. i think her idea is worth consideration, possibly for all denoms. all denoms have their problems with this same sort of carnal, predatory, serial abuse.

such lists might go a long way in reflecting to the world that Christians are sincere and intend to be accountable. presently, “word on the streets” is pretty bad. we want to win hearts, that’s part of our assignment. trust and respect are essential.

[Grace]

From Trudy's latest blog post:

However, I am not an advisor for Haiti. So Haiti will need to navigate this criminal mess against one of the largest USA Christian relief work organizations – making the Forbes top 100 Charity list numerous times. It is not an easy thing to enter a legal battle. And it is even worse when you are up against religious people who are lawyered up. And while they hire lawyers and avoid Haiti law — even while stating publicly they are cooperating with the law — some of the victims in Haiti are receiving death threats. There really is no justice among ‘God’s people’ when this is how they respond

When Trudy makes these accusations, does she have proof, with verification, that CAM is lawyered up and one of the purposes is to avoid Haitian Law? Does she have concrete verification and evidence that the death threats are coming from God's people? If she can't or won't provide the proof behind her accusations, she needs to refrain from purporting them.

I pray there will be justice for the children abused and I also pray that the weapons formed against a whole organization because of a few, will not prosper.

[Pelerin]

Throughout these blog posts, it's been obvious that Trudy doesn't have experience overseas in places like Haiti. That's fine, and so far the places where it shows haven't been important.

On Facebook in an update to this idea, referring to the fact that she would report names to other countries, Trudy says: "being interviewed by the country they go to serve, and being cleared, does not make them innocent". She says this right below "being on the list does not make the accused guilt[y]".

The idea that a tip from a private individual will result in interview that may or may not clear someone is, quite frankly, fantastic. If anything comes of it, being denounced for being on the list will be as good as being guilty. If a country handles things in accordance with the rule of law, it will expect anything worth pursuing to have been handled by US law and communicated in the background check that many countries require for residency permits. Or if not, local police may well ignore it, not having the time or resources to pursue hearsay from a private individual. But in no case will there be an "interview" or due process. And that has the potential to be very damaging.

When you live in a foreign country, you are always conscious of the fact that your status is precarious. Always somewhere in the back of your mind you're aware that a misunderstanding with the police or a bad encounter with a well-connected government official could cause you to lose everything. It's not likely, but a mistake or misunderstanding can undo years of work.

Beyond that, consider that homosexuality is punishable by death in several countries (including some where CAM works). Would Trudy feel comfortable reporting unconfirmed allegations of crimes like Jeriah's in a situation like this?

I understand the heart of what she wants to do and why she sees the need for a list like this. I just find the idea, at least in this aspect, troubling: I see a lot of potential for harm, and very little potential for good.

-----------------------

A second thought: I know a guy with a common name that he shares with a convicted criminal and this causes him some trouble with background checks from time to time. In plain circles, the pool of names is somewhat shallow. I'm glad mine is one of the less common ones.

[temporal1]

From Trudy's latest blog post:

However, I am not an advisor for Haiti. So Haiti will need to navigate this criminal mess against one of the largest USA Christian relief work organizations – making the Forbes top 100 Charity list numerous times. It is not an easy thing to enter a legal battle. And it is even worse when you are up against religious people who are lawyered up. And while they hire lawyers and avoid Haiti law — even while stating publicly they are cooperating with the law — some of the victims in Haiti are receiving death threats. There really is no justice among ‘God’s people’ when this is how they respond

When Trudy makes these accusations she needs to provide concrete verification and evidence. Otherwise we can only conclude they are biased and baseless.

Does she have concrete verification and evidence that the death threats are coming from God's people? If not, they are also biased and baseless.

if i understand, i may not -
i think the threats, name calling, etc., the Haiti victims are suffering are coming from their community, which is horrible. no matter where threats come from, they are horrible.
i believe she is saying, these children very unfairly are “marked” in their own culture, due to predatory acts of JMast.

such things happen in the U.S., so, there should be no real criticism of Haiti’s culture over it.
it’s not “right,” but it is real life.

[Grace]

if i understand, i may not -
i think the threats, name calling, etc., the Haiti victims are suffering are coming from their community, which is horrible. no matter where threats come from, they are horrible.
i believe she is saying, these children very unfairly are “marked” in their own culture, due to predatory acts of JMast.

such things happen in the U.S., so, there should be no real criticism of Haiti’s culture over it.
it’s not “right,” but it is real life.

Although you mean well in defending her, she was referring to CAM in her statements or she wouldn't have referenced the "Forbes top 100 Charity list ". So in a round about way she is claiming that people from CAM are making death threats against the Haitian victims. If that is not what she meant she needs to be more careful in her verbiage, because that is a very serious accusation.

[blackfriar]

Does she have concrete verification and evidence that the death threats are coming from God's people? If she can't or won't provide the proof behind her accusations, she needs to refrain from purporting them.

Grace, I've disagreed with many (most!) of your posts here on this issue, but I do agree with you on this one.

I'm not the arbiter here, and know few of the people involved in this mess, so my opinion is just that -- my opinion. But this latest update from Trudy feels a little...speculative. Maybe Stanley Fox did know. It makes sense that he would have known. But throwing his name out there with no substantive evidence in the article does make me really uncomfortable. Added to that, the vague line about the victims receiving death threats. Again, very possible! Likely, even! But by not saying from whom, and the nature of the threats, it leaves everything open to the imagination.

I'm much more comfortable with the type of article that Christian News Network put out on this -- they listed their sourcing, and quotes from those sources substantiating statements in the article.

[temporal1]

if i understand, i may not -
i think the threats, name calling, etc., the Haiti victims are suffering are coming from their community, which is horrible. no matter where threats come from, they are horrible.
i believe she is saying, these children very unfairly are “marked” in their own culture, due to predatory acts of JMast.

such things happen in the U.S., so, there should be no real criticism of Haiti’s culture over it.
it’s not “right,” but it is real life.

Although you mean well in defending her, she was referring to CAM in her statements or she wouldn't have referenced the "Forbes top 100 Charity list ". So in a round about way she is claiming that people from CAM are making death threats against the Haitian victims. If that is not what she meant she needs to be more careful in her verbiage, because that is a very serious, vindictive accusation.

i’m not trying to defend her, only explain how i understand differently what is written in this paragraph. i believe i read a bit more about the Haitian victims’ plight in their homeland, but i don’t immediately recall just where .. and, i don’t have time to search just now.

what i read described this is happening in Haiti, which is credible, even tho not yet proven, and, victims are hoping to be relocated in the U.S. because of it.

i see Trudy’s deep discontent, i’m not denying that. just addressing this one point.

i have “ideas” about certain CM’s that i think would be effective leaders in this very hard case.
there are some who could be effective and respected, the task is hard!
time will tell.

some are useful for pointing out injustices. Trudy is a whistleblower on this.
others are able to do the nuts+bolts work involved in righting the ship. often, not the same people, not the same skills+gifts. God uses all for His purposes.