CAM Molestation Issue

[Grace]

From what I have learned, I think it would be safe to say that "only a few" in CAM knew.

Thank You, Dan

[Aurien]

Aslanhasheard said:
Yes the most accurate statement would be to say that "some knew but not all" but when I've seen people say "CAM knew" I have never gotten the impression that they meant that everyone or most everyone working with CAM knew. I get the clear impression that they mean there were people in positions of leadership in CAM who knew. Even after only reading Trudy Metzger's first blog post and knowing nothing else about the situation I never assumed that everyone in CAM knew. I rightly supposed that some people in leadership positions knew.

You have valid points, but if someone is going to be as public as Trudy is, it would be a good policy to be completely clear and wholly truthful. Stereotyping a whole organization without verification is not a good policy.

Grace, when Trudy has found that something she said in a blog post wasn't completely accurate she has gone back and corrected it. She has also repeatedly said that she has verification of some things that she can't currently share with the public. I've read all of your posts and it kind of feels like you are deliberately trying to pick apart everything Trudy has said or done in order to find some fault with it. You seem to agree that there should be consequences for Jeriah's actions and that those in CAM who knew should also face the consequences of their actions. It would appear that your grievance is because it was Trudy Metzger who brought this to light.

[blackfriar]

And I’d like to think that they actually believed this sin was taken care of in genuine repentance and would not happen again. If that is the case, I think we should try to extent grace to the leadership. I don’t really like how good men can make an honest mistake and then be publicly flogged and renounce for that mistake or lack of judgement.

It's very possible this was the case, but if it was, it shows a deep ignorance from their leadership about the nature of pedophilia. It's not just something that you can confess, repent, and be free from. Sexual sins of this nature are rooted deeply in the psychological framework of the individual, how he seems himself/others, how he thinks, etc. This doesn't just change overnight, even if the individual has every desire for it to change.

Putting someone with that history in a place where they have the opportunity to abuse again is horrendously ignorant at best.

[temporal1]

And I’d like to think that they actually believed this sin was taken care of in genuine repentance and would not happen again. If that is the case, I think we should try to extent grace to the leadership. I don’t really like how good men can make an honest mistake and then be publicly flogged and renounce for that mistake or lack of judgement.

It's very possible this was the case, but if it was, it shows a deep ignorance from their leadership about the nature of pedophilia. It's not just something that you can confess, repent, and be free from. Sexual sins of this nature are rooted deeply in the psychological framework of the individual, how he seems himself/others, how he thinks, etc. This doesn't just change overnight, even if the individual has every desire for it to change.

Putting someone with that history in a place where they have the opportunity to abuse again is horrendously ignorant at best.

Agreed.
From what i’ve read this week, “Restoration Plans” were heavily relied on, allowing the psychotic to use certain “golden words” as their passes to “go, and continue in sin.”

Frankly, the way 2+2 is looking today, i’m thinking this same sort of mentality has been at work in the Catholic Church. Emphasis is on redemption of the sinner, to a fault! - rather than on whatever restoration of victims can be made.

if i’m understanding, i think this is what Josh and Wade have been trying to hash-out with Dan.
i’m trying to get it.

sexual abuse of babies, children, teens, and other vulnerable ones, like, the disabled, is a form of MURDER. their physical bodies (often) survive, but, souls are damaged, or killed.

i believe this harshest of realities, MURDERS OF SOULS, is what scriptures addresses with “millstones.”

“the world” is not advanced in identifying or responding to mental illness.
normally functioning human brains are not prepared. all sorts of responses “fill in.” denial is common.

i hope the emphasis is on awareness and learning, not just (justifiable) anger.
no one has been great at this.

[Dan Z]

From what I have learned, I think it would be safe to say that "only a few" in CAM knew.

Thank You, Dan

And that is the part of the craziness here. In one sense this whole huge, international, life-shattering, faith-busting, law-breaking, multi-national crisis was brought about by just a few people: first and foremost the sins of a depraved and sick member of our community acting, for the most part, in secrecy, and second by the well-meaning naivete and lack of judgement of a hand-full of church and mission leaders. That's the core of it.

Of course this now has come to encompass so much more - and it is shedding light on much larger and important cultural, church, legal, and institutional questions that will require serious soul-searching for years to come - and hopefully the fire refines us.

[Hats Off]

From what I have learned, I think it would be safe to say that "only a few" in CAM knew.

Thank You, Dan

And that is the part of the craziness here. In one sense this whole huge, international, life-shattering, faith-busting, law-breaking, multi-national crisis was brought about by just a few people: first and foremost the sins of a depraved and sick member of our community acting, for the most part, in secrecy, and second by the well-meaning naivete and lack of judgement of a hand-full of church and mission leaders. That's the core of it.

Of course this now has come to encompass so much more - and it is shedding light on much larger and important cultural, church, legal, and institutional questions that will require serious soul-searching for years to come - and hopefully the fire refines us.

That which has been the accepted standard in the past is no longer acceptable (and never should have been!) Surely, surely, the time has come for new standards. In another thread, AnthonyMartin asked what have Anabaptists brought to masculinity - based on these related threads, we might say "shame." But it isn't just Anabaptist men - it seems to be a wide spread problem that seems to have been somewhat better addressed in the secular world than in the religious communities.

[Josh]

It's very possible this was the case, but if it was, it shows a deep ignorance from their leadership about the nature of pedophilia. It's not just something that you can confess, repent, and be free from. Sexual sins of this nature are rooted deeply in the psychological framework of the individual, how he seems himself/others, how he thinks, etc. This doesn't just change overnight, even if the individual has every desire for it to change.

Putting someone with that history in a place where they have the opportunity to abuse again is horrendously ignorant at best.

This forgive-forget treatment is definitely not extended to seekers who do much lesser offences such as be discouraged with living a plain lifestyle or have a past of drinking, living with a girlfriend, etc.

So I don’t really buy any of this. Blatant pedophilia gets lots of grace and paid missionary positions for 10 years. A sincere seeker who has a typical worldly past would never get this kind of a free pass.

[Josh]

From what I have learned, I think it would be safe to say that "only a few" in CAM knew.

Dan, without going into details I can’t share, this is simply not true.

I was advised to drop the issue and not become a “crusader” and to focus on issues in my home church closer to me. I did exactly that, too.

[temporal1]

Conservative Anabaptists too frequently dismiss professional psychology as irrelevant on the theory that Christians know better.

IMHO this is a mistake!

Pedophilia is not a simple matter of sin-repentance-forgiveness-it won't happen again.
The human mind is much more complicated than that.

Cannot be overstated.
i’d add, the entire world is learning about the human mind.

i learned things when my husband was terminally ill, from multi-degreed neurologists, psychiatrists.
possibly #1 emphasis of these top professionals was, “how much we do NOT know.”
they were humble. i was not expecting that. i was impressed.

one sign of a great educated mind is: humility.

[hillperson]

It's very possible this was the case, but if it was, it shows a deep ignorance from their leadership about the nature of pedophilia. It's not just something that you can confess, repent, and be free from. Sexual sins of this nature are rooted deeply in the psychological framework of the individual, how he seems himself/others, how he thinks, etc. This doesn't just change overnight, even if the individual has every desire for it to change.

Putting someone with that history in a place where they have the opportunity to abuse again is horrendously ignorant at best.

This forgive-forget treatment is definitely not extended to seekers who do much lesser offences such as be discouraged with living a plain lifestyle or have a past of drinking, living with a girlfriend, etc.

So I don’t really buy any of this. Blatant pedophilia gets lots of grace and paid missionary positions for 10 years. A sincere seeker who has a typical worldly past would never get this kind of a free pass.

And of that you should be thankful. Giving a sinner a free pass is not being kind to him. It is damning. If we feel our church brothers are too hard on us we can thank them for keeping us accountable and helping us grow.