By Thy Words

[Josh]

I guess I wasn’t very clear because what I was trying to say is that in some churches even leaving the church for another, where you can agree with the standards, is considered wrong and breaking vows.

I belong to one of these churches. There are exactly 2 Mennonite groups that have this doctrine. The rest of the Mennonites, ranging from Amish to conservative Mennonites to Brethren to everybody in between, disagrees with us on this.

I'm not really sure what the big deal is. If you don't want to be part of a church like this, then don't join one. If you think they're really bad and wrong, you should be delighted to leave one and get away from it, if you do join. It's like sitting around and complaining about how bad the Episcopalians are because you just can't imagine a church with red doors. If you don't like red doors then don't go to a church with red doors.

you joined that church of your own free will, after you became an adult.
the kids who grew up in the church are expected to join, and dare i say indoctrinated into joining.
there is a bit of difference in how a person comes to be a part of a specific church.

What would you prefer? Make young people wait until they’re 18 like the Amish do?

[Signtist]

Or be happy to let them go, and give them a blessing when they decide to your church isn't right for them. Maybe you do. I don't know.

[Wade]

Again, for emphasis... the systems are evil. The people, some are evil, most by far are sincere servants of the Lord.

I am sorry ragpicker. I have no reason to distrust you in this.

Maybe I am just really niave but I don't understand how systems gets blame. I see failure in sin of people. Could you help me understand where the systems are unbiblical?

[ragpicker]

Again, for emphasis... the systems are evil. The people, some are evil, most by far are sincere servants of the Lord.

I am sorry ragpicker. I have no reason to distrust you in this.

Maybe I am just really niave but I don't understand how systems gets blame. I see failure in sin of people. Could you help me understand where the systems are unbiblical?

I’m pretty busy today. Spent ten times what I should have on here this morning. Holler if no one answers.

The system is invisible but just as real as the church building. Preacher after preacher has had to make a choice to bow to it or be chewed up and spit out. The system the political. It craves power.

[Wade]

Again, for emphasis... the systems are evil. The people, some are evil, most by far are sincere servants of the Lord.

I am sorry ragpicker. I have no reason to distrust you in this.

Maybe I am just really niave but I don't understand how systems gets blame. I see failure in sin of people. Could you help me understand where the systems are unbiblical?

I’m pretty busy today. Spent ten times what I should have on here this morning. Holler if no one answers.

The system is invisible but just as real as the church building. Preacher after preacher has had to make a choice to bow to it or be chewed up and spit out. The system the political. It craves power.

Thanks. I don't want to pull your time from better things. I, too, have a lot to tend to. Thank you for openness and God bless you!

[Josh]

Or be happy to let them go, and give them a blessing when they decide to your church isn't right for them. Maybe you do. I don't know.

How far out do you extend this? Do you give them a “blessing” when they decide not to be Christian at all?

[Signtist]

Now I feel like you're being purposefully obtuse. Would you rather curse them?

[Josh]

Now I feel like you're being purposefully obtuse. Would you rather curse them?

I simply don’t think someone walking away from God and into the world is something we need to bless.

[temporal1]

Again, for emphasis... the systems are evil. The people, some are evil, most by far are sincere servants of the Lord.

I am sorry ragpicker. I have no reason to distrust you in this.

Maybe I am just really niave but I don't understand how systems gets blame. I see failure in sin of people. Could you help me understand where the systems are unbiblical?

I’m pretty busy today. Spent ten times what I should have on here this morning. Holler if no one answers.

The system is invisible but just as real as the church building. Preacher after preacher has had to make a choice to bow to it or be chewed up and spit out. The system the political. It craves power.

Personal testimonies are valuable.
i try not to miss reading your posts. You have alluded to various things over years, without details. i’ve wondered, but do not want to pry. i would have never guessed any of this.

Blessings and grace upon you.

ragpicker:
But I got the ultimate revenge. I forgave them and I love them. I literally go out of my way to connect with some of the people involved. I have no pain. I am grateful for the journey.

The Way out.

[Wade]

Or be happy to let them go, and give them a blessing when they decide to your church isn't right for them. Maybe you do. I don't know.

I have a dear brother in Christ who left Nationwide. I was fully supportive of him leaving. Other Mennonites have said the church failed. Others also left that congregation later on, but settled in elsewhere and are doing well. My heart grieves my one friend however that I'm not sure him and his family are doing well spiritually. But neither am I God and need to just trust His leading and understand to continue to respect that following Christ, being part of the church, submission to a local body are all voluntary free will decisions. And as Anabapatists we don't believe in manipulating others but rather blessing them and letting the Spirit work.