What are churches doing to stop predators in the church?

[Judas Maccabeus]

Yeah, I guess the young man would kind of have a chip on his shoulder, that the church didn't protect him as a child, nor the next victim that he knew of. I suppose he wants to keep that sort of thing from happening again, maybe?

Generally speaking I don't think it's possible for churches to "protect" children from their parents. It's not the church's job, even, and is not really possible to do. Exactly how is a church supposed to do that?

If you see something that clearly rises to the level of child abuse, you pick up the phone, and call either child protective services or the police, depending upon your state. Many of us “moderate conservatives “ have had training on the issue. All of us who teach in schools have, at least in my state, and I suspect most others.

[JohnH]

Generally speaking I don't think it's possible for churches to "protect" children from their parents. It's not the church's job, even, and is not really possible to do. Exactly how is a church supposed to do that?

By reporting abusive parents to the authorities, for starters.

Many of us are “mandated reporters “ which means, essentially we have no choice, if there ever was one to begin with.

These are old cases where they may not have been mandated reporters, so what then?

[JohnH]

Yeah, I guess the young man would kind of have a chip on his shoulder, that the church didn't protect him as a child, nor the next victim that he knew of. I suppose he wants to keep that sort of thing from happening again, maybe?

Generally speaking I don't think it's possible for churches to "protect" children from their parents. It's not the church's job, even, and is not really possible to do. Exactly how is a church supposed to do that?

If you see something that clearly rises to the level of child abuse, you pick up the phone, and call either child protective services or the police, depending upon your state. Many of us “moderate conservatives “ have had training on the issue. All of us who teach in schools have, at least in my state, and I suspect most others.

Do you have a detailed list of what crimes should or shouldn’t be reported to the police?

Would you say a minister needs to pick up the phone and call ICE if they suspect a member or attender is violating immigration laws or committing immigration fraud?

The IRS if committing fraud by eg using someone else’s SSN to work?

To what degree do you expect ministers to effectively be agents of the government and part of law enforcement?

[Soloist]

I have to say... I did not see you defending not reporting. If this is a reflection of your church, I'd have to add you to the unsafe to ever attend.

[JohnH]

I have to say... I did not see you defending not reporting. If this is a reflection of your church, I'd have to add you to the unsafe to ever attend.

My church’s policy is to comply with whatever laws exist around reporting.

I disagree with the idea ministers somehow should be investigative agents who conduct police investigations; if they are, I’m asking exactly what crimes are in scope.

Let’s give an example.

I’m aware of someone who entered America illegally without inspection around 25-30 years ago. That’s a crime.

I’m aware he works without lawful authorisation to do in a self employed fashion. Also a crime.

He also doesn’t file U.S. taxes, report his income, or pay taxes owed. All crimes.

I’m a church member. He also is too, in a Methodist church.

Should I report his crimes?

Should the pastor at the Methodist church go report them as well?

[Soloist]

I have to say... I did not see you defending not reporting. If this is a reflection of your church, I'd have to add you to the unsafe to ever attend.

My church’s policy is to comply with whatever laws exist around reporting.

I disagree with the idea ministers somehow should be investigative agents who conduct police investigations; if they are, I’m asking exactly what crimes are in scope.

Let’s give an example.

I’m aware of someone who entered America illegally without inspection around 25-30 years ago. That’s a crime.

I’m aware he works without lawful authorisation to do in a self employed fashion. Also a crime.

He also doesn’t file U.S. taxes, report his income, or pay taxes owed. All crimes.

I’m a church member. He also is too, in a Methodist church.

Should I report his crimes?

Should the pastor at the Methodist church go report them as well?

I propose you ask it in a different thread. This is discussing sexual abuse.

[barnhart]

If you see something that clearly rises to the level of child abuse, you pick up the phone, and call either child protective services or the police, depending upon your state. Many of us “moderate conservatives “ have had training on the issue. All of us who teach in schools have, at least in my state, and I suspect most others.

I would guess more than half the employed adults in our church hold positions at work that make them mandatory reporters.

[Soloist]

I have to say... I did not see you defending not reporting. If this is a reflection of your church, I'd have to add you to the unsafe to ever attend.

My church’s policy is to comply with whatever laws exist around reporting.

I disagree with the idea ministers somehow should be investigative agents who conduct police investigations; if they are, I’m asking exactly what crimes are in scope.

Let’s give an example.

I’m aware of someone who entered America illegally without inspection around 25-30 years ago. That’s a crime.

I’m aware he works without lawful authorisation to do in a self employed fashion. Also a crime.

He also doesn’t file U.S. taxes, report his income, or pay taxes owed. All crimes.

I’m a church member. He also is too, in a Methodist church.

Should I report his crimes?

Should the pastor at the Methodist church go report them as well?

Wife: mandatory reporting is in reference to acts that cause harm to others, specifically vulnerable populations such as minors and the disabled. So the comparison is apples and oranges. Mandatory orders are not asked to be investigators, but if they are specifically told about, or witness a crime that falls in this sphere, they are required by law to report this to the authorities.

This isn’t Brazil, where the people are going to be facing the death penalty, and they could also encourage the defendant to turn themselves in, which is what I saw done in another case with the Holdeman church regarding a teacher, and I wholeheartedly approve of that.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Generally speaking I don't think it's possible for churches to "protect" children from their parents. It's not the church's job, even, and is not really possible to do. Exactly how is a church supposed to do that?

If you see something that clearly rises to the level of child abuse, you pick up the phone, and call either child protective services or the police, depending upon your state. Many of us “moderate conservatives “ have had training on the issue. All of us who teach in schools have, at least in my state, and I suspect most others.

Do you have a detailed list of what crimes should or shouldn’t be reported to the police?

Would you say a minister needs to pick up the phone and call ICE if they suspect a member or attender is violating immigration laws or committing immigration fraud?

The IRS if committing fraud by eg using someone else’s SSN to work?

To what degree do you expect ministers to effectively be agents of the government and part of law enforcement?

we arre talking about child abuse that clearly presents. Please stop draging "whataboutisms" to derail the conversation. If you see it, you know.

[JohnH]

Wife: mandatory reporting is in reference to acts that cause harm to others, specifically vulnerable populations such as minors and the disabled. So the comparison is apples and oranges. Mandatory orders are not asked to be investigators, but if they are specifically told about, or witness a crime that falls in this sphere, they are required by law to report this to the authorities.

I’m not speaking in terms of legal compliance.

I’m asking, as a Christian, apart from any legal obligations, what you think the Bible calls us to do and what Jesus expects us to do as we follow them.

I am quite hesitant to say the Bible commands us to report crimes to the authorities as part of pastoral duties. If it does, I am asking what type of crimes, exactly, and what crimes are “exempt”, and the biblical basis for claiming such.