Mennonites and War

[JayP]

The problem with many of you that explain why Russia is wrong is, respectfully, you seek some sort of justice to your views.
I do not think God wants the Christian to do that. Obviously helping those distressed by war is right.
But when you pick a side, it leads to the next war where you pick a side that is just a bit less in the right.
And the next time after that…..

We are always to be fruit inspectors. That action is wrong putting Jews in camps is wrong. Bombing those civilians is wrong.
Christians are not asked to fix these problems. And involvement in judging the wars participants is a slippery slope.

I would liken it to some distressing family situations. I used to want to intervene. To “fix” it. Now I realize that I am just to pray about it. Be there when a circumstance allows for me to be involved in some POSITIVE way, but otherwise stand back.

It is a fine line between ignoring evil (which is wrong) and standing back from the tribulations that men get themselves into.

[R7ehr]

The problem with many of you that explain why Russia is wrong is, respectfully, you seek some sort of justice to your views.
I do not think God wants the Christian to do that. Obviously helping those distressed by war is right.
But when you pick a side, it leads to the next war where you pick a side that is just a bit less in the right.
And the next time after that…..

We are always to be fruit inspectors. That action is wrong putting Jews in camps is wrong. Bombing those civilians is wrong.
Christians are not asked to fix these problems. And involvement in judging the wars participants is a slippery slope.

I would liken it to some distressing family situations. I used to want to intervene. To “fix” it. Now I realize that I am just to pray about it. Be there when a circumstance allows for me to be involved in some POSITIVE way, but otherwise stand back.

It is a fine line between ignoring evil (which is wrong) and standing back from the tribulations that men get themselves into.

How does this mesh with “Blessed are the peacemakers”?

[Szdfan]

The problem with many of you that explain why Russia is wrong is, respectfully, you seek some sort of justice to your views.
I do not think God wants the Christian to do that. Obviously helping those distressed by war is right.
But when you pick a side, it leads to the next war where you pick a side that is just a bit less in the right.
And the next time after that…..

We are always to be fruit inspectors. That action is wrong putting Jews in camps is wrong. Bombing those civilians is wrong.
Christians are not asked to fix these problems. And involvement in judging the wars participants is a slippery slope.

I would liken it to some distressing family situations. I used to want to intervene. To “fix” it. Now I realize that I am just to pray about it. Be there when a circumstance allows for me to be involved in some POSITIVE way, but otherwise stand back.

It is a fine line between ignoring evil (which is wrong) and standing back from the tribulations that men get themselves into.

This assumes distance from what happens in the world. It's easier to say that "putting Jews in camps is wrong" and that Christians have nothing to do with it when it happens far away. What if it's not far away? What about German Christians in the 1930s and 40s? What about Bonhoeffer? What's the line between non-involvement and complicity?

[Jazman]

I chose #1 because I pretty much agree with the 4 paragraphs in question (in first post). But, the one thing that gave me pause was the OP title... The word "official" is used and that threw me off somewhat, because even though I agree with/support the statement, I don't know that all of the different branches of Mennodom would... ie their "official" on paper positions might not align with the 4 para. statement quoted in the OP.

Some good questions being asked and discussed by many of you. I think I'll learn some new things about people, their churches/Menno branches etc as we wrestle with these questions.

[JohnH]

The problem with many of you that explain why Russia is wrong is, respectfully, you seek some sort of justice to your views.
I do not think God wants the Christian to do that. Obviously helping those distressed by war is right.
But when you pick a side, it leads to the next war where you pick a side that is just a bit less in the right.
And the next time after that…..

We are always to be fruit inspectors. That action is wrong putting Jews in camps is wrong. Bombing those civilians is wrong.
Christians are not asked to fix these problems. And involvement in judging the wars participants is a slippery slope.

I would liken it to some distressing family situations. I used to want to intervene. To “fix” it. Now I realize that I am just to pray about it. Be there when a circumstance allows for me to be involved in some POSITIVE way, but otherwise stand back.

It is a fine line between ignoring evil (which is wrong) and standing back from the tribulations that men get themselves into.

A good analogy indeed is a husband and wife who are constantly fighting / bickering and neither one is willing to just stop.

[temporal1]

The problem with many of you that explain why Russia is wrong is, respectfully, you seek some sort of justice to your views.
I do not think God wants the Christian to do that. Obviously helping those distressed by war is right.
But when you pick a side, it leads to the next war where you pick a side that is just a bit less in the right.
And the next time after that…..

We are always to be fruit inspectors. That action is wrong putting Jews in camps is wrong. Bombing those civilians is wrong.
Christians are not asked to fix these problems. And involvement in judging the wars participants is a slippery slope.

I would liken it to some distressing family situations. I used to want to intervene. To “fix” it. Now I realize that I am just to pray about it. Be there when a circumstance allows for me to be involved in some POSITIVE way, but otherwise stand back.

It is a fine line between ignoring evil (which is wrong) and standing back from the tribulations that men get themselves into.

A good analogy indeed is a husband and wife who are constantly fighting / bickering and neither one is willing to just stop.

(i believe) it’s common knowledge among first responders that family situations, domestic disputes, are the most dangerous (to first responders). very important. very difficult.

take heart that being that restrained prayerful bystander CAN BE a great witness, because it’s actually the holy spirit that determines outcomes. the holy spirit can use ALL for His purposes. sometimes we’re aware of impact of our words+actions, often we’re not.

[Bootstrap]

It is a fine line between ignoring evil (which is wrong) and standing back from the tribulations that men get themselves into.

A good analogy indeed is a husband and wife who are constantly fighting / bickering and neither one is willing to just stop.

That analogy works sometimes—when both sides are caught in cycles of pride or revenge. But not all wars are like that.

Some wars are more like a husband who abuses his wife and children. And if all we can say to her is, “Just submit,” or “You’re both at fault,” we’re not promoting peace—we’re compounding the harm and enabling the abuse. And sometimes abuse thrives even in our own circles—not because we approve of it, but because we’re so reluctant to name it clearly. Our desire for peace can turn into silence. Our calls for submission can be twisted into complicity. If we want to be faithful to Jesus, we need the courage to tell the truth—even when it’s uncomfortable.

I believe Caesar may bear the sword—that’s part of God’s provision for restraining evil through government (Romans 13). But as followers of Jesus, we’re called to a different path. That doesn’t mean we ignore the difference between aggression and self-defense. It means we refuse to be the ones who kill, even when others might see it as justified.

We can still grieve evil, name injustice, and stand with the oppressed. But we do so as people shaped by the cross, not the sword.

[mike]

It is a fine line between ignoring evil (which is wrong) and standing back from the tribulations that men get themselves into.

A good analogy indeed is a husband and wife who are constantly fighting / bickering and neither one is willing to just stop.

That analogy works sometimes—when both sides are caught in cycles of pride or revenge. But not all wars are like that.

Some wars are more like a husband who abuses his wife and children. And if all we can say to her is, “Just submit,” or “You’re both at fault,” we’re not promoting peace—we’re compounding the harm and enabling the abuse. And sometimes abuse thrives even in our own circles—not because we approve of it, but because we’re so reluctant to name it clearly. Our desire for peace can turn into silence. Our calls for submission can be twisted into complicity. If we want to be faithful to Jesus, we need the courage to tell the truth—even when it’s uncomfortable.

I believe Caesar may bear the sword—that’s part of God’s provision for restraining evil through government (Romans 13). But as followers of Jesus, we’re called to a different path. That doesn’t mean we ignore the difference between aggression and self-defense. It means we refuse to be the ones who kill, even when others might see it as justified.

We can still grieve evil, name injustice, and stand with the oppressed. But we do so as people shaped by the cross, not the sword.

I'm with the others, I'm good with paragraphs 1,4, but I don't care to make judgments on the merits of belligerents in specific wars as a part of any official statement on Mennonite beliefs regarding war.

[ken_sylvania]

It is a fine line between ignoring evil (which is wrong) and standing back from the tribulations that men get themselves into.

A good analogy indeed is a husband and wife who are constantly fighting / bickering and neither one is willing to just stop.

That analogy works sometimes—when both sides are caught in cycles of pride or revenge. But not all wars are like that.

Some wars are more like a husband who abuses his wife and children. And if all we can say to her is, “Just submit,” or “You’re both at fault,” we’re not promoting peace—we’re compounding the harm and enabling the abuse. And sometimes abuse thrives even in our own circles—not because we approve of it, but because we’re so reluctant to name it clearly. Our desire for peace can turn into silence. Our calls for submission can be twisted into complicity. If we want to be faithful to Jesus, we need the courage to tell the truth—even when it’s uncomfortable.

I believe Caesar may bear the sword—that’s part of God’s provision for restraining evil through government (Romans 13). But as followers of Jesus, we’re called to a different path. That doesn’t mean we ignore the difference between aggression and self-defense. It means we refuse to be the ones who kill, even when others might see it as justified.

We can still grieve evil, name injustice, and stand with the oppressed. But we do so as people shaped by the cross, not the sword.

So then, considering your analogy, as people shaped by the cross and as followers of Jesus' commands, what should we recommend to the Ukrainians as a response to Putin's invasion? How can we recommend that they do anything other than what Jesus commands us to do when we are persecuted or mistreated?

[Ken]

A good analogy indeed is a husband and wife who are constantly fighting / bickering and neither one is willing to just stop.

That analogy works sometimes—when both sides are caught in cycles of pride or revenge. But not all wars are like that.

Some wars are more like a husband who abuses his wife and children. And if all we can say to her is, “Just submit,” or “You’re both at fault,” we’re not promoting peace—we’re compounding the harm and enabling the abuse. And sometimes abuse thrives even in our own circles—not because we approve of it, but because we’re so reluctant to name it clearly. Our desire for peace can turn into silence. Our calls for submission can be twisted into complicity. If we want to be faithful to Jesus, we need the courage to tell the truth—even when it’s uncomfortable.

I believe Caesar may bear the sword—that’s part of God’s provision for restraining evil through government (Romans 13). But as followers of Jesus, we’re called to a different path. That doesn’t mean we ignore the difference between aggression and self-defense. It means we refuse to be the ones who kill, even when others might see it as justified.

We can still grieve evil, name injustice, and stand with the oppressed. But we do so as people shaped by the cross, not the sword.

So then, considering your analogy, as people shaped by the cross and as followers of Jesus' commands, what should we recommend to the Ukrainians as a response to Putin's invasion? How can we recommend that they do anything other than what Jesus commands us to do when we are persecuted or mistreated?

Peacemaking doesn't just involve actual wars between nations.

Let's take things closer to home. For example, Baltimore has been discussed here. What do you recommend that the city of Baltimore do to address violent crime? And how should the city of Baltimore and the criminal justice system follow the commands of Jesus in doing so?