Anabaptist ordination - lifelong calling?

[MattY]

For those of you talking about a lifetime calling, do you actually mean lifetime or do you mean until a certain time in old age? We are implementing an age 70 retirement age in my church; this is new for us and it's not fully implemented; we have had some difficulties and our bishop hasn't been able to retire as early as he was hoping to. He's 71 and probably going to retire next year Lord willing. I have heard that other churches are beginning to do this too, but I don't know specifics.

The basic policy is as follows:

"1. Ordained ministers will offer to retire from normal pastoral responsibility by the age of 70. The pastoral team may accept the offer, or request a brief exception if perceived necessary. To provide overlap of tenure, the ordination of a younger Minister shall proceed the retirement. The retired Minister may continue to accept assignments when called upon.

2. By the time a Bishop/Deacon reaches age 65, he agrees to ordain a replacement for his Bishop/Deacon responsibility. The former Bishop/Deacon will then serve up to 70 years of age as a full team member with the other ministers."

[mike]

Reading the latest comments, I realized that I never said the main thing I was thinking of. This is that I no longer think that a 'calling' is for life, so that once received, you can just "stop listening for a possible new direction from God".

Thanks for sharing your experience. That must have been very painful.

[MattY]

Where do we get the idea that one must be ordained in order to preach, at least on an occasional basis?

I think it developed in the second and third centuries as the development of clergy and roles became more defined. So a long time before Protestants.

Yeah I think this is accurate.

I think it's okay for church services and church leadership and responsibilities/roles to be structured in different ways that serve the needs of the church. But looking at the descriptions provided in the New Testament, I think I see some difference from the way we do things today.

I think it's noteworthy that an ability to preach is not mentioned as a qualification for elders. Teach, yes; preach, no. Doesn't mean that elders shouldn't preach...same for deacons. More on that below.

It's also noteworthy that the NT doesn't seem to assume that there is always a sermon when believers come together to worship, or have instructions for how sermons should be done in the gathered assembly. It describes taking communion, breaking bread, reading Scripture, singing, prophesy, speaking in tongues, interpretation of tongues, and teaching. When does it describe preaching (in a gathered assembly context, not just in the sense of spreading the Word to your neighbor)? When an apostle or an evangelist is present.

Going by that, I think the original church services didn't necessarily have a sermon every time they met. Sermons are done either by apostles (an office that no longer exists, after the first century), or by those with the gift of evangelism. Now here's the thing: "Evangelist" is a gift, not an office. It could be done by an elder, a deacon, or a lay person, presumably - but none of them had to do that, presumably, if they didn't have the gift of evangelism. Most of the times when preaching is mentioned or a sermon is recorded, it is being done by an apostle (e.g. Paul), but preaching is also done by deacons like Philip and Stephen, as well as Paul's assistant Timothy. I could be wrong, but I don't think Timothy is mentioned as an elder. He is told what the qualifications of an elder are, and he is told to preach - do the work of an evangelist.

I don't know that we need to do anything different than we are. I don't see a prescription that we have to do things exactly one way. But this is something I noticed and have been thinking about.

[mike]

Where do we get the idea that one must be ordained in order to preach, at least on an occasional basis?

No idea.

[Ken]

Where do we get the idea that one must be ordained in order to preach, at least on an occasional basis?

No idea.

Probably control.

So that the church has control and authority over those who preach on its behalf and trust that their message is sound.

[JohnL]

But looking at the descriptions provided in the New Testament, I think I see some difference from the way we do things today.

Looking at Matt’s comment made me realize that “ordained for life” was not a long time In the New Testament. If a male survived the high infant mortality challenges he’d be fortunate to live to 45-50s if he wasn’t caught and executed for his Christian beliefs. 60-agers were considered really old.
Life spans today are at least 10-15 years longer on average and it’s not unusual anymore to see preachers in their 80s and even occasionally in their 90s. I wonder if that is part of the reason things are done differently than NT descriptions?

[barnhart]

Where do we get the idea that one must be ordained in order to preach, at least on an occasional basis?

No idea.

Our preaching calendar prioritizes local ordained leaders but also includes lay teachers, including youth, and leaders from sister churches.

[Ernie]

apostles (an office that no longer exists, after the first century)

Are you stating this as an observation of early church history, or making a theological statement?

[JohnH]

Where do we get the idea that one must be ordained in order to preach, at least on an occasional basis?

I think it developed in the second and third centuries as the development of clergy and roles became more defined. So a long time before Protestants.

The Protestant style sermon was a new affectation that developed in the Reformation, versus a brief homily. There is also evidence non ordained people often got up and shared a (short) message prior to the reformation. The Catholic service revolved around the Eucharist, not the sermon.

[Biblical Anabaptist]

Where do we get the idea that one must be ordained in order to preach, at least on an occasional basis?

My son, an ordained bishop, says he finds it interesting that when an ordained person gives a discourse, it is a "sermon", but when given by an unordained person it is a "topic".

Being now a part of a congregation where both ordained leadership and unordained men speak at the Sunday morning service, I find it difficult to refer to myself as "preaching a sermon".