Women's dress/fashion

[Grace]

It would be better for older women to encourage younger women to follow appropriate clothing and behavior, rather than for the men to do so.

Which is exactly how it works in any plain church. Of course many of the older women often do consult with their husbands.

I'm not sure why these conversations always turn into "why are the men telling the women what to do". In my congregation the harshest criticism of how women are dressed tends to come from other women. Most men would prefer not to have to talk about it.

I have heard many preachers, preach on the subject of modest dress in women and they were all men. I can appreciate churches who have the men and women separated for Sunday School. And that seems to be the appropriate time for the women to address the issue of modest dress.

[steve-in-kville]

Because men like telling women how to be 'holy'.

Would it better to encourage women to follow the fashions and trends of the world?

It would be better for older women to encourage younger women to follow appropriate clothing and behavior, rather than for the men to do so.

I like this better than hearing it preached over the pulpit. Unless its her mom... that never ends well...

[Neto]

It would be better for older women to encourage younger women to follow appropriate clothing and behavior, rather than for the men to do so.

Which is exactly how it works in any plain church. Of course many of the older women often do consult with their husbands.

I'm not sure why these conversations always turn into "why are the men telling the women what to do". In my congregation the harshest criticism of how women are dressed tends to come from other women. Most men would prefer not to have to talk about it.

I have heard many preachers, preach on the subject of modest dress in women and they were all men. I can appreciate churches who have the men and women separated for Sunday School. And that seems to be the appropriate time for the women to address the issue of modest dress.

It is not only the youth who may need to hear this teaching, but I would think that end of things could be nicely taken care of by the "youth sponsor" wife, in a special meetings with just the young women. (Younger girls might tend to be more receptive to their own mothers than some of the older ones, but some older adults, who may have never been themselves taught, may not know how to do it for their children.)

[Heirbyadoption]

It would be better for older women to encourage younger women to follow appropriate clothing and behavior, rather than for the men to do so.

Which is exactly how it works in any plain church. Of course many of the older women often do consult with their husbands.

I'm not sure why these conversations always turn into "why are the men telling the women what to do". In my congregation the harshest criticism of how women are dressed tends to come from other women. Most men would prefer not to have to talk about it.

I don't intend this contentiously, but in the several Mennonite and Brethren groups I interact with here in PA (ranging from Old Order to moderately conservative, not including the usual BMA whipping boy), I see a much different experience in "how it works" in plain churches. Among the more conservative ones, the criticism of and/or emphasis on how women are (or should be) dressed comes just as much or more from the men and preachers, than it does from the women, especially among the Old Orders and more conservative ones. Nor does it seem that it can be chalked up solely to "women being silent", as I find that there are indeed vocal and strong-minded women throughout most such groups. I wonder if it may be, in large part, the difference between varying geographical areas and the prevailing influences in them.... Then again, maybe it's a Holdeman thing for the women to be the harshest critics of other women's dress...?

Perhaps some of you other Mennos have had different experiences? The diversity of how this dynamic plays out in different groups is interesting.

[Josh]

I don't intend this contentiously, but in the several Mennonite and Brethren groups I interact with here in PA (ranging from Old Order to moderately conservative, not including the usual BMA whipping boy), I see a much different experience in "how it works" in plain churches. Among the more conservative ones, the criticism of and/or emphasis on how women are (or should be) dressed comes just as much or more from the men and preachers, than it does from the women, especially among the Old Orders and more conservative ones. Nor does it seem that it can be chalked up solely to "women being silent", as I find that there are indeed vocal and strong-minded women throughout most such groups. I wonder if it may be, in large part, the difference between varying geographical areas and the prevailing influences in them.... Then again, maybe it's a Holdeman thing for the women to be the harshest critics of other women's dress...?

Perhaps some of you other Mennos have had different experiences? The diversity of how this dynamic plays out in different groups is interesting.

I suppose it would even be inappropriate for men to speak very loudly about how women and girls are dressed. The only time I have heard it from the pulpit is when a revival preacher brought it up, but in the context of admonishing a congregation on several things that needed to be worked on.

As far as I can tell, the means of enforcement is sister to sister, or from mothers, or from mothers-in-law. There does seem to be an expectation that preachers' wives and deacons' wives will talk to a woman who is clearly out of line. For younger girls there is an expectation her mother will talk to her.

Likewise if a teacher is drifting outside of the dress code then the school board members' wives (usually school board members are chosen who have wives who used to be teachers) would address the particulars.

I have heard in the past it wasn't always this way, particularly with Swiss background preachers, but this I have only heard this spoken of in a derogatory fashion, such as the rather amusing incident of an older preacher who didn't like new teachers who wore flip flops to town - "you shouldn't wear flip flops past your mailbox".

[Heirbyadoption]

I don't intend this contentiously, but in the several Mennonite and Brethren groups I interact with here in PA (ranging from Old Order to moderately conservative, not including the usual BMA whipping boy), I see a much different experience in "how it works" in plain churches. Among the more conservative ones, the criticism of and/or emphasis on how women are (or should be) dressed comes just as much or more from the men and preachers, than it does from the women, especially among the Old Orders and more conservative ones. Nor does it seem that it can be chalked up solely to "women being silent", as I find that there are indeed vocal and strong-minded women throughout most such groups. I wonder if it may be, in large part, the difference between varying geographical areas and the prevailing influences in them.... Then again, maybe it's a Holdeman thing for the women to be the harshest critics of other women's dress...?

Perhaps some of you other Mennos have had different experiences? The diversity of how this dynamic plays out in different groups is interesting.

I suppose it would even be inappropriate for men to speak very loudly about how women and girls are dressed. The only time I have heard it from the pulpit is when a revival preacher brought it up, but in the context of admonishing a congregation on several things that needed to be worked on.

As far as I can tell, the means of enforcement is sister to sister, or from mothers, or from mothers-in-law. There does seem to be an expectation that preachers' wives and deacons' wives will talk to a woman who is clearly out of line. For younger girls there is an expectation her mother will talk to her.

Likewise if a teacher is drifting outside of the dress code then the school board members' wives (usually school board members are chosen who have wives who used to be teachers) would address the particulars.

I can appreciate these sorts of approaches, certainly.