The Anabaptist perspective towards dating and/or courtship?

[steve-in-kville]

The individual I had in mind was a bit socially awkward (but then, so am I) and would write letters to the father of single girls asking to court their daughters, only to get shot down. And within a week he would do the same to someone else.

[Szdfan]

The individual I had in mind was a bit socially awkward (but then, so am I) and would write letters to the father of single girls asking to court their daughters, only to get shot down. And within a week he would do the same to someone else.

That is probably not a winning strategy.

[Ken]

The individual I had in mind was a bit socially awkward (but then, so am I) and would write letters to the father of single girls asking to court their daughters, only to get shot down. And within a week he would do the same to someone else.

That is probably not a winning strategy.

Exactly.

So the girls had no agency in this process at all? They were just the subject of a transaction between two men?

I actually think that more formal matchmaking types of activities would be useful in many communities. The conservative old-tech version of match.com. Thing like speed-dating and unofficial matchmakers in the community of the sort that I understand are more common in say conservative Jewish communities.

I actually don't know how much of that sort of thing actually happens. Maybe plenty of it. But if this is actually a problem that needs 'fixing' then there are lots of tried and true solutions going back millennia.

[steve-in-kville]

So the girls had no agency in this process at all? They were just the subject of a transaction between two men?

I think it was out of respect. He was getting permission to court the daughter, I never heard of the girl being obligated, though. Keep in mind, this was a pretty conservative circle, like EPMC and such like.

[Ken]

So the girls had no agency in this process at all? They were just the subject of a transaction between two men?

I think it was out of respect. He was getting permission to court the daughter, I never heard of the girl being obligated, though. Keep in mind, this was a pretty conservative circle, like EPMC and such like.

If the guy and girl already knew each other and both wanted to date then checking with the parents for permission is a matter of respect. No problem with that.

But from what you described, he was just randomly contacting the fathers of girls who didn’t necessarily know him or weren’t interested in him, and looking for a “hit” so to speak. That is different. Did any of those girls even know this was happening before hand? That isn’t a show of respect to either the girl or her father. That is an attempt to turn dating into a transaction between two men rather than an interaction between a man and woman. It sounds like the fathers mostly saw through this and didn’t play along. And good for them. But what if that hadn’t been the case? What if some poor girl had been forced to deal with and date him because it was all pre-arranged in advance?

Marriage is by far the most significant decision in most people’s lives. I honestly think we should do a better job with helping people come together and pair up. Both in wider society and within conservative groups. It doesn’t always just happen organically. Sometimes people need help.

[steve-in-kville]

If the guy and girl already knew each other and both wanted to date then checking with the parents for permission is a matter of respect. No problem with that.

I see the angle you're coming from. And I agree it does sounds like an arranged relationship.

[ohio jones]

So the girls had no agency in this process at all? They were just the subject of a transaction between two men?

I think it was out of respect. He was getting permission to court the daughter, I never heard of the girl being obligated, though. Keep in mind, this was a pretty conservative circle, like EPMC and such like.

Some of those groups were into following Gothard, and that's what he recommended. Considering that it worked so well for him ...

[mike]

Looking for some lively discussion with a poll mixed in. Open to all registered users.

What term did you use? Does your church have any standards on courtship relationships? How long should courtship last? Should length of courtship depend on the age of the couple?

So many questions.

I personally interchange the two, although I've heard discussions that they are indeed different.

The terms don't matter to me. People who react against one or the other are typically reacting against certain behavior, not the terms themselves. In any culture, regardless of the terms and even the particular customs, singles are going to have their ways of determining partners they are interested in, whether that person is also interested in them, and whether they will be compatible marriage partners. Standards on non-married relationships should be the biblical standard of sexual purity and all other principles that should govern relationships. There is no ideal length for courtship but naturally maturity is a factor.

[Neto]

At some point in my single years (I met my wife when I was nearly 27) I came to the conclusion that there was something that either did, or didn't, happen fairly soon after a "boy" and a "girl" meet. That 'something' that will determine the answer to the question, no matter how much later it is 'popped'. So thinking that it was already determined early on, there were actually two girls that after a year or two of fairly close friendship, I went to them with the question as to whether they would be interested in considering a different type of relationship. One told me no right out, and another told me who she was really interested in, but that that guy was interested in someone else. She told me she would think about it, because she wasn't sure. We wrote back & forth after that for some time, but we were each assigned to different parts of the world, and while I DID meet my wife before I went to the field, she went on as a single missionary, and met her husband there, someone from a completely different part of the world. I think I met him once, after we were both married, and they are still doing Bible translation for a people group in the country where they met.

Another guy I knew took a different tact. (He told me about this after he & his wife had been married for around 6 months.) He made a list of "possibilities", and went down the list one by one, asking them if they would consider a relationship with the possibility of marriage in the future. I think that's pretty much the way many people would define "courtship". Dating, by contrast, was (in my understanding) generally thought of as much more casual - a relationship just for the sake of enjoying the other's company, with no real thought of marriage. (Someone else told me that he went from one to the next asking them to marry him, but that was not the way he described it, and I don't think that was true, either. Partly maybe because someone said the same thing about me, and I KNEW that wasn't so.)

[Ken]

At some point in my single years (I met my wife when I was nearly 27) I came to the conclusion that there was something that either did, or didn't, happen fairly soon after a "boy" and a "girl" meet. That 'something' that will determine the answer to the question, no matter how much later it is 'popped'. So thinking that it was already determined early on, there were actually two girls that after a year or two of fairly close friendship, I went to them with the question as to whether they would be interested in considering a different type of relationship. One told me no right out, and another told me who she was really interested in, but that that guy was interested in someone else. She told me she would think about it, because she wasn't sure. We wrote back & forth after that for some time, but we were each assigned to different parts of the world, and while I DID meet my wife before I went to the field, she went on as a single missionary, and met her husband there, someone from a completely different part of the world. I think I met him once, after we were both married, and they are still doing Bible translation for a people group in the country where they met.

Another guy I knew took a different tact. (He told me about this after he & his wife had been married for around 6 months.) He made a list of "possibilities", and went down the list one by one, asking them if they would consider a relationship with the possibility of marriage in the future. I think that's pretty much the way many people would define "courtship". Dating, by contrast, was (in my understanding) generally thought of as much more casual - a relationship just for the sake of enjoying the other's company, with no real thought of marriage. (Someone else told me that he went from one to the next asking them to marry him, but that was not the way he described it, and I don't think that was true, either. Partly maybe because someone said the same thing about me, and I KNEW that wasn't so.)

Yes. When I met my wife I was in my early 30s and I knew she was the one within 24 hours. We just had a different chemistry than I had with any other previous girlfriend. It still took us 9 months to get married. But we knew it long before that. I had dated lots of other women over the years before that. Many of them very nice women who I could easily rationalize marrying and having a permanent relationship with. But it would have been just that. Rationalizing. And who knows, we might have had long-term successful marriages.

But I do think it takes a certain level of maturity and experience to recognize that when you find it and aren’t just mistaking infatuation or crushes for permanent long-term chemistry or love. Most of the marriages I have seen fail were couples who got married too early, before they really knew who they were themselves, or what they wanted out of life. I don’t know if that is just a random observation of mine, or something that is born out in statistics. But I don’t think rushing into marriage is necessarily a good thing, especially if you are young. There is no more consequential decision that any of us will make in our lives.