By Thy Words

[ABC 123]

The person stated they didn't want to reveal their identity because they figured people would find a way to discount what they are saying.

A not entirely unjustified concern, considering some of the company he has very publicly associated himself with.

It is next to impossible to meet the criteria to speak about abuse issues.

To identify yourself is to discredit yourself.

To not identify yourself is to discredit yourself.

Quote their own words you discredit yourself.

Laugh about it, you discredit yourself.

Speak earnestly, you discredit yourself.

The only ones not discredited are the ones who would never say it....and if they did say it, they would be discredited.

[Ernie]

I do get your point, Grace.

However how do you address these issues of spiritual abuse. You came out the other side apparently unscathed. Some are not so fortunate. And some are still there.

To say something bothers people, so we just let it keep happening?

I think a lot of harm and damage is done by some things that are written and preached in CA publications and churches.

I also think a lot of harm and damage is done by those who make light of the convictions of others.

So I think we need to find ways to address spiritual abuse without making light of others convictions and without placing ourselves in the position of ultimate judge. Folks who place themselves in the position of ultimate judge often have a lot of reaping later in life when their offspring and followers take a course that is not God honoring.

[Grace]

I think a lot of harm and damage is done by some things that are written and preached in CA publications and churches.

I also think a lot of harm and damage is done by those who make light of the convictions of others.

So I think we need to find ways to address spiritual abuse without making light of others convictions and without placing ourselves in the position of ultimate judge. Folks who place themselves in the position of ultimate judge often have a lot of reaping later in life when their offspring and followers take a course that is not God honoring.

Well said. We need to remember that Jesus died for the CA people, same as He did for us.

[steve-in-kville]

We live in Lancaster County and I remember when the Charity Churches were taking the Conservative Mennonite culture here by storm.

Grace- I first learned of the Charity church when I worked at Martin's Country Market, your neck of the woods! A family associated with Charity had a donut truck in the parking lot. This was the early/mid 90's. I was young then, so full of hope....

[Grace]

We live in Lancaster County and I remember when the Charity Churches were taking the Conservative Mennonite culture here by storm.

Grace- I first learned of the Charity church when I worked at Martin's Country Market, your neck of the woods! A family associated with Charity had a donut truck in the parking lot. This was the early/mid 90's. I was young then, so full of hope....

Don't get me wrong, there were and still are wonderful Charity people. But there were some facets of the Charity Church that were very troubling.

We were at a Charity Wedding once, and the main focus of the wedding wasn't on the Lord, encouragement for a Godly marriage, or the home that was about to be established, but a brag fest about the "Hands Off relationship" the couple had, had. After the ceremony, when the couple was now allowed to touch....well let's just say, did they ever touch !! It was embarrassing to watch. I think the couple has ditched any semblance of anything conservative, especially anything Charityesque, a long time ago.

[ragpicker]

We live in Lancaster County and I remember when the Charity Churches were taking the Conservative Mennonite culture here by storm.

Grace- I first learned of the Charity church when I worked at Martin's Country Market, your neck of the woods! A family associated with Charity had a donut truck in the parking lot. This was the early/mid 90's. I was young then, so full of hope....

Don't get me wrong, there were and still are wonderful Charity people. But there were some facets of the Charity Church that were very troubling.

We were at a Charity Wedding once, and the main focus of the wedding wasn't on the Lord, encouragement for a Godly marriage, or the home that was about to be established, but a brag fest about the "Hands Off relationship" the couple had, had. After the ceremony, when the couple was now allowed to touch....well let's just say, did they ever touch !! It was embarrassing to watch. I think the couple has ditched any semblance of anything conservative, especially anything Charityesque, a long time ago.

I probably know them. This could be any number of people.

[ragpicker]

The person stated they didn't want to reveal their identity because they figured people would find a way to discount what they are saying.

A not entirely unjustified concern, considering some of the company he has very publicly associated himself with.

It is next to impossible to meet the criteria to speak about abuse issues.

To identify yourself is to discredit yourself.

To not identify yourself is to discredit yourself.

Quote their own words you discredit yourself.

Laugh about it, you discredit yourself.

Speak earnestly, you discredit yourself.

The only ones not discredited are the ones who would never say it....and if they did say it, they would be discredited.

All that may be true, but it still seems wise to not be a disingenuous, smarmy, self-righteous jerk, or to closely associate with such, if your goal is to actually make a difference. It’s going to have an impact on one’s effectiveness and it’s not fair to put that burden on the “hearer”.

Neither is it fair to, as you were correctly alluding to, demand perfection before we allow them to have credibility.

(I’m involved in a situation right now where the abusive control freak is grasping at every flaw and perceived flaw to discredit the people who are inadvertently exposing his abusive behavior. It’s so bizarre to watch.)

Back to the subject… I’ve found that the more pure my heart motive is, the more effective I am at communicating the severity of the abuse, AND the better positioned I am to stop it, when the situation calls for it. My past is littered with the wreckage of speaking up with tainted motives. I’m on a mission to change that, with varying degrees of success. (I am NOT suggesting that one has to be pure to be effective.)

[RZehr]

The person stated they didn't want to reveal their identity because they figured people would find a way to discount what they are saying.

A not entirely unjustified concern, considering some of the company he has very publicly associated himself with.

It is next to impossible to meet the criteria to speak about abuse issues.

To identify yourself is to discredit yourself.

To not identify yourself is to discredit yourself.

Quote their own words you discredit yourself.

Laugh about it, you discredit yourself.

Speak earnestly, you discredit yourself.

The only ones not discredited are the ones who would never say it....and if they did say it, they would be discredited.

True what you are pointing out. So speak in love, with humble respect, and you don’t discredit yourself. Still may not be heard, true, but won’t discredit yourself.

The other thing, as you say “discredited”, rarely is someone monolithically discredited by a whole group. If they are, there probably are good reasons. Most of the time, the speaker does retain at least some level credibility within a given group, their message does resonate with some people, and some people will “eat the meat and spit out the bones”.

[ABC 123]

Don't get me wrong, there were and still are wonderful Charity people. But there were some facets of the Charity Church that were very troubling.

We were at a Charity Wedding once, and the main focus of the wedding wasn't on the Lord, encouragement for a Godly marriage, or the home that was about to be established, but a brag fest about the "Hands Off relationship" the couple had, had. After the ceremony, when the couple was now allowed to touch....well let's just say, did they ever touch !! It was embarrassing to watch. I think the couple has ditched any semblance of anything conservative, especially anything Charityesque, a long time ago.

I have been to a few of those weddings. They seem afraid the audience will break out in sudden mayhem between warnings to be holy.

[Josh]

We live in Lancaster County and I remember when the Charity Churches were taking the Conservative Mennonite culture here by storm.

Grace- I first learned of the Charity church when I worked at Martin's Country Market, your neck of the woods! A family associated with Charity had a donut truck in the parking lot. This was the early/mid 90's. I was young then, so full of hope....

Don't get me wrong, there were and still are wonderful Charity people. But there were some facets of the Charity Church that were very troubling.

We were at a Charity Wedding once, and the main focus of the wedding wasn't on the Lord, encouragement for a Godly marriage, or the home that was about to be established, but a brag fest about the "Hands Off relationship" the couple had, had. After the ceremony, when the couple was now allowed to touch....well let's just say, did they ever touch !! It was embarrassing to watch. I think the couple has ditched any semblance of anything conservative, especially anything Charityesque, a long time ago.

Given my current experiences with dating couples in Charity settings, “hands off” relationships would be a real improvement...