Most Worthy Pardon Petition

[temporal1]

2018 / Page 5 / Ken Miller / http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php ... 3&start=40

April 12, 2018 / Was surprised to see this today:
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pasto ... ed-lesbian

there are 8 links to past reports following today’s entry.

i believe this link still works, and has the 8 links leading to LSN reports on this case.
LSN is known for supporting traditional families and being actively prolife, all over the world; being Catholic, they are all over the world. they do not focus solely on Canadian or U.S. news.

they receive a lot of criticism. all Christians do. it’s the fashion.
i don’t agree with everything i’ve read on their site in the past. but i esp enjoyed reading various international reports, which are uncommon elsewhere. in my personal news break, i haven’t read any of it in months.

i’m comfortable believing this is not a scam of some sort. YMMV

i notice the petition is up to 4766 now, the current goal is 5000.

[Robert]

If people are serious about this request. And it isn't just a publicity stunt to drive traffic to that web site. Then they should know the answers to those questions.

Maybe they know and just have not told you because you never asked. Why not go ask instead of make assumptions and lambaste them unfairly? I would think an educator would know to do these things.

[Ken]

If people are serious about this request. And it isn't just a publicity stunt to drive traffic to that web site. Then they should know the answers to those questions.

Maybe they know and just have not told you because you never asked. Why not go ask instead of make assumptions and lambaste them unfairly? I would think an educator would know to do these things.

Fine, I would be happy to.

1. Is this an official appeal for clemency to the president?
2. Who is organizing it and do they even have the support and blessing of Lisa Miller? Is she involved? Does she even want this attention and is she seeking clemency? Or is she living some private life someplace and not interested in this renewed attention to her case?
3. On what grounds are they requesting clemency? What case is being made and does it meet any of the grounds for clemency?
4. How is this appeal being submitted to the White House? Who is sending it? In what form is it being sent?
5. When is it being sent? The clock is obviously ticking if they want to get this to Trump. But I suppose they can always submit it to Biden as well.
6. Who at the White House is it being sent to? Is it going to the actual DOJ Pardon Office? Are they just going to mail it to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue? Or do they just assume someone from the president's inner circle is just going to happen to find the web site and see it?

Does anyone here know the answers to any of these questions?

[JimFoxvog]

At any rate, it seems to me that such a change ought to require a constitutional amendment.

Here's my proposed amendment.

Section 1. The President does not have the Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States committed by himself, his personal acquaintances, or those who have worked on his behalf.

Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

[temporal1]

From email from Pablo Yoder-

Petition seeks pardon for Lisa Miller:

President Trump is to be asked in a petition by LifeSiteNews to pardon Lisa Miller, the mother who fled to Nicaragua in 2009 to protect her daughter from contact with Lisa’s former same-gender partner. Lisa Miller and two court-appointed advocates had testified to the trauma that young Isabella experienced when spending court-ordered time with Lisa’s former partner, Janet Jenkins. Mennonite men Ken Miller and Timo Miller, as well as businessman Philip Zodhiates, have served time in federal prison for their role in aiding the escape. The petition seeks to clear the records of the men involved in the case and to allow Lisa Miller and her daughter, who is now an adult, freedom to return to the United States. The petition was launched January 5 and has reached 3,679 of the 4,000 signature goal.
LifeSiteNews

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/new-l ... r-daughter

i lament this forum does not have a Prayers+Personal Testimonies category.
i understand this thread to be a call for prayer, not so much Civics debate.

RZehr may respond. i may not understand.

[Robert]

1. Is this an official appeal for clemency to the president?
2. Who is organizing it and do they even have the support and blessing of Lisa Miller? Is she involved? Does she even want this attention and is she seeking clemency? Or is she living some private life someplace and not interested in this renewed attention to her case?
3. On what grounds are they requesting clemency? What case is being made and does it meet any of the grounds for clemency?
4. How is this appeal being submitted to the White House? Who is sending it? In what form is it being sent?
5. When is it being sent? The clock is obviously ticking if they want to get this to Trump. But I suppose they can always submit it to Biden as well.
6. Who at the White House is it being sent to? Is it going to the actual DOJ Pardon Office? Are they just going to mail it to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue? Or do they just assume someone from the president's inner circle is just going to happen to find the web site and see it?

Does anyone here know the answers to any of these questions?

Ask them not us. How would we know?

How does any if this have to do with Anabaptist theology or ideology? Once again, you push the boundaries.

[Robert]

I didn't say you got it wrong, just that you added a lot of extra political baggage that wouldn't have been necessary. The thing I think you got wrong was your claim that you were "not trying to be political" and "only trying to answer barnhart's questions." But since you suggested it....

According to the Constitution, the President of the United States has the sole power of pardons. The pardon process, similar to many other powers entrusted to Congress and the President, has over time increasingly been managed by the DOJ bureaucracy. This has been done in an effort to ensure that the most worthy cases are presented to the President for pardon, and to help manage the political implications associated with who gets pardoned. President Trump distrusts (perhaps a better word would be detests) the machinery of Government and the expertise of people outside his inner circle of friends. In the real world in which I live (I believe Ken called this an "alternate reality"), we currently have a president who somewhat takes after President Lincoln in his habit of bypassing the professional members of his staff and intervening in cases that catch his fancy. Our current president seems to view pardons as a kind of currency or weapon available, (as he sees it, to correct wrongs visited upon his supporters by the opposition), as I see it, to protect those who are willing to be loyal to him at all costs.

It just so happens that there is nothing at all in the Constitution to suggest that a president ought to be restricted to offering pardons only to those recommended by the DOJ.

This post is really on the edge because it does cause anyone responding to it to discuss the politics of pardons instead of the need or lack thereof.

I know Politics is really embedded in us right now. I am having fits not blasting about what is going on. It is a struggle for us all because of the political climate right now. I actually think that makes it all more important that we do shun it from our discussions here. We do need to back off and see things from a eternal perspective more. Martyrs died for our faith. Can we hold our tongue for 40 days so we come together in Christ instead of divide in society?

[Josh]

Lisa Miller turned from a sinful, homosexual lifestyle and became a Christian, and then lived a difficult life making sure to protect her child against a dangerous homosexual predator. What is most important is the salvation visited upon her and her little family because of not only her choice to follow Christ, but the choice of a little Mennonite church and a Mennonite minister who realised he faced a decision of “we must obey God rather than men”.

Man’s justice systems will have a chance to recognise the lawfulness of these acts. One of those ways could be a Presidential pardon, but I doubt it. Another way is the officials involve realise their sin, repent, and turn and follow Christ too - whatever the cost.

Ultimately, on judgment day, I trust we will see Lisa Miller, Ken Miller, and many others relying on the Advocate to step in and tell the just Judge they are forgiven of their sins and may enter into the joy of their Lord.

My prayer is as few as possible will find only the accuser presenting their case before the judge: “This one saw the poor and the needy and did nothing. This one chose a life of pleasure and sin. This one chose to do lawlessness and violence, even trying to cause one of these little ones to stumble.”

The time for pardons and clemency for them will be over. Will we be a witness to save as many of these souls from destruction? No political movement will save any of them.

[Ken]

1. Is this an official appeal for clemency to the president?
2. Who is organizing it and do they even have the support and blessing of Lisa Miller? Is she involved? Does she even want this attention and is she seeking clemency? Or is she living some private life someplace and not interested in this renewed attention to her case?
3. On what grounds are they requesting clemency? What case is being made and does it meet any of the grounds for clemency?
4. How is this appeal being submitted to the White House? Who is sending it? In what form is it being sent?
5. When is it being sent? The clock is obviously ticking if they want to get this to Trump. But I suppose they can always submit it to Biden as well.
6. Who at the White House is it being sent to? Is it going to the actual DOJ Pardon Office? Are they just going to mail it to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue? Or do they just assume someone from the president's inner circle is just going to happen to find the web site and see it?

Does anyone here know the answers to any of these questions?

Ask them not us. How would we know?

How does any if this have to do with Anabaptist theology or ideology? Once again, you push the boundaries.

I'm not sure why you are so bent out of shape. I don't mean to pick on Rzehr because he is always one of the most thoughtful and measured posters here. But here on the Anabaptist forum we have a request made to sign a clemency petition for Lisa Miller.

How is it unreasonable and "pushing the boundaries" to ask questions about that petition that is being promoted here? You are the one who suggested I ask questions. I'm no the one pushing this petition. As for "asking them" I did follow the link to the web site and discovered that you can't even see the actual petition without entering your email and contact information. Which immediately raised flags in my mind and I was unwilling to do as I already get too much junk email and I don't need more. There is absolutely no reason why the government would need *MY* email to be included in any clemency request, so I assume they are collecting it for some other ulterior motive.

And yes, I agree. I don't understand what this petition has to do with Anabaptist theology. It appears to be a case about child abuse, child endangerment, and child abduction, not anything to do with Anabaptist theology. Lisa Miller claims child abuse and child endangerment as the reason she had to abduct the child and flee the country. Not religious persecution.

[Robert]

I'm not sure why you are so bent out of shape.

Some self reflection might be in order. You have been warned formally once and informally once. Consider that.

You are the one who suggested I ask questions.

I thought an educated person would know to ask the questions to the people who would know. I will make sure and spell things out for you better next time.

There is absolutely no reason why the government would need *MY* email to be included in any clemency request, so I assume they are collecting it for some other ulterior motive.

All petitions ask for some form of validation. A list of names alone are ignored. Names with some way to contact the people is required. Every on line petition I have ever seen has asked for email or address.

I don't understand what this petition has to do with Anabaptist theology.

Since you are new to the forum, this might be a fair statement. You do not know that a conservative Mennonite pastor was imprisoned, not jailed, but sent to prison, for assisting her. We discussed the issue at length. Many here know Ken Miller personally and prayed for his and Lisa's situation. Encouraging a pardon for her would be very in line with our discussion and prayers. Now you know.

I hope by educating you better, you can find a way to discuss without bringing political viewpoints or positions.