Lessons for the Church from the DC Riots

[Valerie]

Yep. America is founded on the myth that the Revolutionary War was somehow good; people who believe that either have to exist in a kind of schizoprenia that yesterday's activities weren't a good thing (but somehow rebelling against the government in the first place was a good thing), or else basically give it their support, believing violent revolutions to somehow bring about peace and justice to the earth.

Well, it was that government 'here' that brought the Anabaptists 'here'.

[ken_sylvania]

Yep. America is founded on the myth that the Revolutionary War was somehow good; people who believe that either have to exist in a kind of schizoprenia that yesterday's activities weren't a good thing (but somehow rebelling against the government in the first place was a good thing), or else basically give it their support, believing violent revolutions to somehow bring about peace and justice to the earth.

Well, it was that government 'here' that brought the Anabaptists 'here'.

What government???

[ohio jones]

Well, it was that government 'here' that brought the Anabaptists 'here'.

Many Amish, Mennonites, Brethren, and Quakers were 'here' before the Revolutionary War.

[Valerie]

Yep. America is founded on the myth that the Revolutionary War was somehow good; people who believe that either have to exist in a kind of schizoprenia that yesterday's activities weren't a good thing (but somehow rebelling against the government in the first place was a good thing), or else basically give it their support, believing violent revolutions to somehow bring about peace and justice to the earth.

Well, it was that government 'here' that brought the Anabaptists 'here'.

What government???

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I may be remembering wrong, wasn't William Penn instrumental in welcoming Anabaptists here? I mean there was the whole world to flee to?

William Penn:



William Penn (14 October 1644 – 30 July 1718) was the son of the admiral and politician Sir William Penn. Penn was a writer, early member of the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers), and founder of the English North American colony the Province of Pennsylvania. He was an early advocate of democracy and religious freedom, notable for his good relations and successful treaties with the Lenape Native Americans. Under his direction, the city of Philadelphia was planned and developed. Philadelphia was planned out to be grid-like with its streets and be very easy to navigate, unlike London where Penn was from. The streets are named with numbers and tree names. He chose to use the names of trees for the cross streets because Pennsylvania means "Penn's Woods".

Wikipedia · Text under CC-BY-SA license

The government of the US was welcoming and promoted freedom of religion-

[Valerie]

Well, it was that government 'here' that brought the Anabaptists 'here'.

Many Amish, Mennonites, Brethren, and Quakers were 'here' before the Revolutionary War.

So were the Puritans- yes-
Where did I learn William Penn had something to do with it? Also, I read a letter by John Adams to his wife and he did mention Anabaptists specifically involved in the government in his days- he listed several denominations and Anabaptists specifically as well.

[Valerie]

Here is one of several links but I think I learned of it in Holmes originally:
How did William Penn help the Amish ... - The Amish ...


https://amishschoolhouse.com/how-did-wi ... -the-amish

William Penn was one of the main reasons for the Amish immigration to America. He played a huge part in Amish history. Penn was born October 14, 1644. He was the son of Admiral Sir William Penn. Penn founded the province of Pennsylvania. He set forth democratic principles that impacted the United States Constitution.

[ken_sylvania]

Well, it was that government 'here' that brought the Anabaptists 'here'.

What government???

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I may be remembering wrong, wasn't William Penn instrumental in welcoming Anabaptists here? I mean there was the whole world to flee to?

William Penn:



William Penn (14 October 1644 – 30 July 1718) was the son of the admiral and politician Sir William Penn. Penn was a writer, early member of the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers), and founder of the English North American colony the Province of Pennsylvania. He was an early advocate of democracy and religious freedom, notable for his good relations and successful treaties with the Lenape Native Americans. Under his direction, the city of Philadelphia was planned and developed. Philadelphia was planned out to be grid-like with its streets and be very easy to navigate, unlike London where Penn was from. The streets are named with numbers and tree names. He chose to use the names of trees for the cross streets because Pennsylvania means "Penn's Woods".

Wikipedia · Text under CC-BY-SA license

The government of the US was welcoming and promoted freedom of religion-

That William Penn never set foot in the United States of America, and certainly never participated in the USA government.

Although Pennsylvania did welcome Quakers and Anabaptists before the Revolutionary War, during the war the new "government," if one can rightfully call it that, severely persecuted various people who refused to renounce their oaths of allegiance to the Crown.

[Valerie]

What government???

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I may be remembering wrong, wasn't William Penn instrumental in welcoming Anabaptists here? I mean there was the whole world to flee to?

William Penn:



William Penn (14 October 1644 – 30 July 1718) was the son of the admiral and politician Sir William Penn. Penn was a writer, early member of the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers), and founder of the English North American colony the Province of Pennsylvania. He was an early advocate of democracy and religious freedom, notable for his good relations and successful treaties with the Lenape Native Americans. Under his direction, the city of Philadelphia was planned and developed. Philadelphia was planned out to be grid-like with its streets and be very easy to navigate, unlike London where Penn was from. The streets are named with numbers and tree names. He chose to use the names of trees for the cross streets because Pennsylvania means "Penn's Woods".

Wikipedia · Text under CC-BY-SA license

The government of the US was welcoming and promoted freedom of religion-

That William Penn never set foot in the United States of America, and certainly never participated in the USA government.

Although Pennsylvania did welcome Quakers and Anabaptists before the Revolutionary War, during the war the new "government," if one can rightfully call it that, severely persecuted various people who refused to renounce their oaths of allegiance to the Crown.

I'm cornfused

[ohio jones]

1683 - First permanent Mennonite settlement, Germantown PA
1718 - Penn dies
1730s-1760s - My Amish ancestors arrive in PA
1775 - Revolutionary war begins
1781 - Articles of Confederation ratified, forming the United States

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I may be remembering wrong, wasn't William Penn instrumental in welcoming Anabaptists here?

Penn did promote freedom of religion in his colony. He was probably living at the time, though, which would have made it long before the Revolution.

So explain to us again how

it was that government 'here' that brought the Anabaptists 'here'.

is not anachronistic with respect to Josh's comment about the myth of the Revolutionary War.

[Ernie]

This is what Anabaptists.org says about the Revolutionary War

The Liberties of Nonresistant Christians. Some Americans supported neither side in the Revolution. Instead, as Mennonite and German Baptist leaders said in 1775, "We have dedicated ourselves to serve all men in everything that can be helpful to the preservation of men's lives, but...we are not at liberty in conscience to take up arms to conquer our enemies, but rather to pray to God, who has power in heaven and on earth, for us and them." Chief among these nonresistant Christians were the Quakers, Mennonites, German Baptists, Moravians, and Schwenkfelders.

Most nonresistant Christians were quite content with their lot as British subjects. As three Mennonite bishops in Pennsylvania wrote in 1773, "Through God's mercy we enjoy unlimited freedom in both civil and religious matters." Ironically, once the fight for liberty started, the freedom of nonresistant Christians became sharply limited.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funkite
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mennonites
One group who fought in the Revolutionary War

After immigration to America, many of the early Mennonites split from the main body of North American Mennonites and formed their own separate and distinct churches. The first schism in America occurred in 1778 when Bishop Christian Funk's support of the American Revolution led to his excommunication and the formation of a separate Mennonite group known as Funkites. In 1785 the Orthodox Reformed Mennonite Church was formed, and other schisms occurred into the 21st century. Many of these churches were formed as a response to deep disagreements about theology, doctrine, and church discipline as evolution both inside and outside the Mennonite faith occurred. Many of the modern churches are descended from those groups that abandoned traditional Mennonite practices.

In most wars, the majority of Anabaptists do not go to war, but there are generally exceptions.

The unique thing about WWII is that most Mennonite in Germany supported Hitler.