Have Christians unintentionally caused abortions?

[Chris]

Chris said,

“Way easier for them 10 years later in a sobbing fest if it gets revealed to say "I had an abortion 10 years ago", than having a 10 year old out of wedlock. That child will constantly be called "out of wedlock" by the church. You know it, and I know it.”

Any Amish or Mennonite woman who wants to give up her child for adoption will find many eager takers. (If you can’t find any, contact me. I know an number of married people who would like to be adoptive parents.)

A single mother with a 10 year old out of wedlock is someone who made multiple poor decisions, and then imposes a significant cost on others for her bad decisions. Of course there will be shame attached; a child whose father abandons him is deeply shameful, and a woman who sleeps with a man, gets pregnant, and doesn’t have the good sense to get married to the dad is also deeply shameful.

In the Old Testament, they would be either forced to be married or else would be stoned to death. A little embarrassment at the church potluck seems like a lenient sentence to me.

And is that "shame" judged by others part of the cause of abortion?

[Chris]

I think single moms tend to find acceptance in less conservative churches for a reason.

I see no reason to inflict more damage on a person who is already in over their head with a pregnancy/birth of a child born of an illegitimate relationship.

I know people tend to judge, but I think we are called not to. Sure, point out the sin if that seems expedient at the time, but I would rather pour my efforts into making a positive impact on the situation.

I technically should not be here if everyone on my tree behaved themselves. I am surrounded by people who similarly are products of bad choices and bad timing.

Besides, how many people fornicate without producing a baby? Plenty. We really have no way of knowing who to judge in that regard.

Do I think people should fornicate? No. It is sin. Does it happen? Yes. So does stealing, murder, lying, envy, and the like. God is merciful and just and forgives all who call upon his name.

Yes, I agree with your post.

Check out even our language on these posts.

What is somebody doing who has relations out of wedlock? A fornicator.

Situation 1 - Somebody has a physical act out of wedlock - they are a fornicator. They repent. Okedokie. Years past, pretty much forgotten.

Situation 2 - Somebody has a physical act out of wedlock - same act - same thing - but this time a child comes from it. Now we have the term "Child out of wedlock", and a scarlet letter of adultery looming over the head forever. I've heard the term. I've read the term here on this forum.

This is the SAME SIN. One carries the shame badge for life. Is this causing abortions more often - especially within Amish/Mennonite groups?

[TruthSeeker]

If Jesus met the unwed mom or baby’s father at “the well“ (as he did the Samaritan women), what might be his message & tone?

[TruthSeeker]

After Thought: the baby’s daddy could also be termed “the unwed father “

[ABC 123]

After Thought: the baby’s daddy could also be termed “the unwed father “

Excellent point.

[Josh]

Chris said,

“Way easier for them 10 years later in a sobbing fest if it gets revealed to say "I had an abortion 10 years ago", than having a 10 year old out of wedlock. That child will constantly be called "out of wedlock" by the church. You know it, and I know it.”

Any Amish or Mennonite woman who wants to give up her child for adoption will find many eager takers. (If you can’t find any, contact me. I know an number of married people who would like to be adoptive parents.)

A single mother with a 10 year old out of wedlock is someone who made multiple poor decisions, and then imposes a significant cost on others for her bad decisions. Of course there will be shame attached; a child whose father abandons him is deeply shameful, and a woman who sleeps with a man, gets pregnant, and doesn’t have the good sense to get married to the dad is also deeply shameful.

In the Old Testament, they would be either forced to be married or else would be stoned to death. A little embarrassment at the church potluck seems like a lenient sentence to me.

And is that "shame" judged by others part of the cause of abortion?

No.

Back when we had more shame for things like adultery and out of wedlock pregnancies, we had a lot less of it.

Fornication, adultery, murder, rape, getting an abortion, and sexual abuse are death sins that send people to hell. Anyone who repents of these sins will repent publicly, accept the shame, and never expect other people to treat them “normal”.

As I keep saying, if someone has an out of wedlock pregnancy - many resources are available. A young couple in my church paid for the living expenses of two single expectant mothers their entire pregnancy, who then changed their mind about adoption once they had the baby. Obviously, not much shame there.

[Josh]

I think single moms tend to find acceptance in less conservative churches for a reason.

I see no reason to inflict more damage on a person who is already in over their head with a pregnancy/birth of a child born of an illegitimate relationship.

I know people tend to judge, but I think we are called not to. Sure, point out the sin if that seems expedient at the time, but I would rather pour my efforts into making a positive impact on the situation.

I technically should not be here if everyone on my tree behaved themselves. I am surrounded by people who similarly are products of bad choices and bad timing.

Besides, how many people fornicate without producing a baby? Plenty. We really have no way of knowing who to judge in that regard.

Do I think people should fornicate? No. It is sin. Does it happen? Yes. So does stealing, murder, lying, envy, and the like. God is merciful and just and forgives all who call upon his name.

Yes, I agree with your post.

Check out even our language on these posts.

What is somebody doing who has relations out of wedlock? A fornicator.

Situation 1 - Somebody has a physical act out of wedlock - they are a fornicator. They repent. Okedokie. Years past, pretty much forgotten.

Situation 2 - Somebody has a physical act out of wedlock - same act - same thing - but this time a child comes from it. Now we have the term "Child out of wedlock", and a scarlet letter of adultery looming over the head forever. I've heard the term. I've read the term here on this forum.

This is the SAME SIN. One carries the shame badge for life. Is this causing abortions more often - especially within Amish/Mennonite groups?

Chris, men and women are not the same thing. Men don’t give birth. Women do.

This means women in particular bear consequences for unrestrained fornication. A healthy society revolves around enforcing proper standards of marriage and encourages young women not to fornicate, and also imposes penalties and young men who try to fornicate. (The Mennonite church I am part of doesn’t treat this like a joke - you will get excommunicated after being raised your whole life to believe you’ll go to hell if you fornicate and don’t repent.)

The alternative is life that looks a ghetto. Subsidising single motherhood is not a Christian thing to do.

[ABC 123]

Blossoms of the Dust, a movie based on the life story if Edna Gladney. Look it up.

We can self righteously decide to make sure females who fornicated and produced a child feel our disapproval forever. (How would they know they did wrong if we loved them and their child and didn't remind them of it with our obvious disapproval???)

That's one way to handle a situation. Single mothers sometimes become such through some pretty complicated circumstances that are not easily untangled in the short amount of time some people are willing to invest before relegating those women to their place of shame.

We could decide to teach truth and show God's love in action. It isn't mutually exclusive.

The Swartzentruber church sits according to social strata. The unwed mothers have their place. The unwed mothers due to rape (incest) have their place of shame, too.

[Josh]

Sorry, but being a kid with a dad who doesn’t want you is inherently shameful and always will be. This cannot be changed.

A healthy society has dealt with this by adoption.

Trying to remove the “stigma” of unwed mothers just means you get a lot more unwed mothers and a lot more social dysfunction.

Incidentally, a healthy society puts a lot of shame and stigma on men who don’t raise their children. An old Baptist preacher told me about how in the old days, if a guy kept messing around with a girl, they’d eventually just take him behind the work shed after church and give him a thorough beating with the garden hose.

[ABC 123]

Shame. It's the Jesus way.