The Pilgrim Church (aka: Kingdom Christians) Long List

[appleman2006]

Let me take a stab at it. Not sure if this will help you with your "list" but this is how I would answer the original question.

Things I would look for in a brotherhood community that I would want to be associated with.

1. that they would be a people that saw their need of a Saviour and recognized Jesus as the fulfilment of that need.
2. That the resulting love of God that would come from No. 1 would show itself in wanting to follow Jesus' teachings and example in all areas of life.
3. that there would be a genuine love for the brotherhood shown in their relationships with each other. That each person would truly learn to set other's interests and wellbeing ahead of one's self.
4. that that love and caring would overflow in the community about them and that those in the community would be inclined to "want whatever those people have".
5. that the various Christian observances such as communion, baptism, Christian woman's veiling etc. be observed in such a way that the observance truly teaches or reminds us of the spiritual principal involved and that the observance in no way becomes an end in itself.
6.that the emphasis be in having ones spirits united rather than that everyone be exactly united in the exact form of dress or the exact appearance that they take on.
7. that love and nonresistance be truly practiced both as it relates to the kingdoms of this world but even more so in our daily lives and especially to each other
8. that "sharing each other's burdens" truly be done out of a voluntary sense of love and care and not just because that is what the church expects us to do.
9. that all members, men and women, old and young, married and single, while perhaps having different roles are all considered equal in their value to the body and that called out leadership would truly have servant hearts and that more than any thing else truly act as servants.
10. that each would recognize that to a certain extent the above scenario would be a utopia and that as long as the body is made up of humans that utopia will probably not be reached but that does not mean we cannot try. . Therefor more than anything else we are called first and foremost to be encouragers. (rebukes received from primary encouragers will always have more effect)

Oh and BTW I am blessed to be part of a community that I think really is trying to uphold the above ideals. I am so blessed.
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[Bootstrap]

I suspect Kingdom Christians will differ on some conclusions like this.

Just curious... Would you identify with Kingdom Christians as defined by David Bercot in the OP?

The OP does not contain a definition, but here's a Bercot definition I agree with and identify with:

In conclusion, what are Kingdom Christians? They are Christians who:

1. Recognize the Kingdom of God as the primary authority in their lives.
2. Seek first the Kingdom of God and the King
3. Realize that the Kingdom of God cannot be combined with any of the kingdoms of this world.
4. Therefore, they avoid entanglements with the governments of this world, along with their politics and wars.
5. Kingdom Christians are first of all citizens of God's Kingdom and only secondarily citizens of the earthly nations in which they live. Their fellow countrymen are all of the other citizens of God's kingdom around the world.
6. They recognize Jesus as their ultimate Lawgiver and the Sermon on the Mount as their primary Constitution. Kingdom Christians will not violate Jesus' teachings even if their earthly governments command them to. They remain loyal to Christ even though earthly governments may imprison them or execute them for doing so.
7. Finally, kingdom Christians recognize that the commandments given by Jesus and his apostles don't ever become outdated or irrelevant. They are binding on each generation of Christians in every age.

When I apply these principles, I don't reach all of the same conclusions that Bercot does. I think Menno Simons and Michael Sattler were more correct about divorce, for instance, and I don't think kissing as part of a liturgy but not as an everyday greeting is really in keeping with the original scriptures. But I agree with a great deal of his conclusions.

[Ernie]

I think Menno Simons and Michael Sattler were more correct about divorce, for instance,

Does anyone know where I can get an electronic copy of this writing without gettting it from MQR? Gameo and others say that "Concerning Divorce" is from the Swiss Brethren, presumably written by Sattler.

[MaxPC]

Does anyone know where I can get an electronic copy of this writing without getting it from MQR? Gameo and others say that "Concerning Divorce" is from the Swiss Brethren, presumably written by Sattler.

I did a search for you and several sources seem to confirm Sattler wrote a tract called "Concerning Divorce" or "On Divorce". Perhaps the book The Life and Thought of Michael Sattler by C Arnold Snyder (Aug 1984) may have it. I couldn't find any online copies of this book or his tract; I also searched at Christian Classics Ethereal Library which has copies of some Anabaptist writings (including Martyrs Mirror) but to no avail.

[cmbl]

I don't think kissing as part of a liturgy but not as an everyday greeting is really in keeping with the original scriptures.

For what it's worth and if I remember correctly, my intermediate-conservative setting has something in its standards about the holy kiss being an everyday greeting, not just on Sunday.

[Bootstrap]

I don't think kissing as part of a liturgy but not as an everyday greeting is really in keeping with the original scriptures.

For what it's worth and if I remember correctly, my intermediate-conservative setting has something in its standards about the holy kiss being an everyday greeting, not just on Sunday.

That definitely feels more consistent to me.

[Bootstrap]

Does anyone know where I can get an electronic copy of this writing without getting it from MQR? Gameo and others say that "Concerning Divorce" is from the Swiss Brethren, presumably written by Sattler.

I did a search for you and several sources seem to confirm Sattler wrote a tract called "Concerning Divorce" or "On Divorce". Perhaps the book The Life and Thought of Michael Sattler by C Arnold Snyder (Aug 1984) may have it. I couldn't find any online copies of this book or his tract; I also searched at Christian Classics Ethereal Library which has copies of some Anabaptist writings (including Martyrs Mirror) but to no avail.

Spinning off a separate thread for this.

Early Anabaptist writers on Divorce and Remarriage

[Josh]

These are great lists, so far.

[Jazman]

Instead of a list of things, I offer this one point with related thoughts. I did my best to pare this down, my apologies if you begin to glaze. Anyway as I see it, there are two main camps...

The evangelical Protestant "faith alone, works can't/don't save, God just wants a relationship with you" camp... (some related points and personal thoughts)

1. I believe this thinking has become more extreme in the american experience and even more so in recent generations. The emphasis on pietism and just-believing-the-right-things is so embedded now, that a lot of people are actually living that way now. Millions of "evangelical" christians have a false hope in belief-alone and little prayers and mental assent but their worldliness renders them impotent in the face of current darkness (and many also openly collaborate with the darkness...)
2. In this camp, being relevant often seems more important than being countercultural* (*exception seems to be sexuality...)
3. I thought of a steam engine analogy the other day and it goes like this: Steam engines don't do much until they get a good boiler full of steam going. It seems to me that a lot of evangelical Protestant practice/thought works out like this too... people really don't do much or think they can do much unless they've got a full head of right beliefs and feelings of faith (spurred by the latest/greatest pietistic experience) Problem is, I see lots of people who spend years doing piety and "personal relationship with God" and who knows what else trying to work up that head of steam, but in real life... they haven't really been much of a witness or herald to the upside-down, countercultural Kingdom of God. And I have to include myself in that indictment as well. I look back over my life and especially my teen years and remember the heartache I spent trying to "feel" like a christian... trying to "be in relationship"... trying to work up that head of revivalist emotional steam...because that was the constant emphasis. It was years later that I finally realized that the Bible was telling me to go do something! Be kind to someone. Help someone. Forgive someone. Obey the command you know to do. Just do it. Stop waiting for some "faith" feeling or that "I'm right with God, now I can go do what He wants me to do feeling." I don't mean to downplay the sacrifice and hard work it takes to follow Christ - it's not easy, but paradoxically, He really doesn't ask that much. Love Him and love your neighbor... imo all the things people do to try to fulfill the add-ons (1)"you must have a deep intimate relationship! (2)You must have faith! (ie lots of mental hope/resolve) hinder rather than build the kingdom.
4. In other words, Do good (works); Obey and the relationship part will happen on its own and many years down the road someone may recall your actions and say, "that was faith" (like in Hebrews 11)
5. This faith-aloneism or God-just-wants-a-relationship is what makes so much room for runaway acculturation... Preach/teach this long enough and people will take faith-aloneism/it's-only-a-relationship to it's logical extreme...ie obedience, faithful endurance and active countercultural living isn't very important...

Kingdom Christianity, however, emphasizes faith and works (faithful works), and the Kingdom growing here on earth as it is in heaven through faithful obedience to Christ and the convictions God has lead you to (not just "belief" in Christ.

1. To me, even a basic perusing of Scripture shows an emphasis on doing, obedience, counterculture action etc. When Hebrews 11 talks about faith, it's looking back, seeing actions and then ascribing faith. I doubt Abraham, et al "felt" full of "faith" leading up to or during the act, but the obedience was, in hindsight a leap of faith. It continues to amaze me at times listening to people steeped in Protestant "faith aloneism" take one Scripture passage after another, and twist it into a "God doesn't care about your works-it's all about your attitude-He's done everything-you don't have to do anything" box, when the passage clearly says "now go DO this - I, God want you to DO something!" There's 0 mention of attitude. There's 0 mention of "relationship". There's 0 mention of some pietistic activity you have to do beforehand. There's 0 mention of "works don't save you" - yet that's what people will twist into it
2. This idea that works-do-matter makes room for lots of different convictions/practice that flows out of the basic principle...It makes room for our Catholic/Eastern Orthodox brothers and sisters. It has space for the Old Orders or other branches with distinct action-based convictions. Their tradition and teachings also teach that faith and works go hand in hand. They, as anyone would, often struggle to live up to the high ideals, but at least it's there! (unlike the evangelical faith-aloneism Protestant's active denigration of the works/faith principle.)
3. I have to put a plug in for some of the teaching/preaching I've heard from John D Martin on this subject. I think he was one of the first conservative Mennonites I heard(In my mind/memory) that was finally being honest and saying, "Works matter! And this modernist Protestant lingo we've been shoehorning in with our Anabaptism all these years doesn't describe what we're doing here! We're Anabaptists who believe in and live good works that do save us from the sins we do in the here/now and do show a way (imperfectly for sure) of salvation for the cosmos/world from its sin/brokenness. He's put us here to do that! We are here to DO things, not just believe or feel something! Now Bro Martin would probably disagree with how I'm trying to live that out and I'm sure he'd believe I'm not conservative/plain/radical enough. But here was someone who wasn't trying to be a plain menno whilst simultaneously trying to be a Protestant, feelings/belief obsessed revivalist...(like I think too many did in my background). It's hard to explain but it was freeing and inspiring. It cleared some of the fog that I'd been wrestling with since my youth.

I hope some of that makes some sense... I know some of it is venting but for me it's very current; very tangible and relevant to current events within american christianity, especially protestant evangelicalism (which is where I'm affiliated, despite the "Anabaptist" sheen we like to claim) I believe it also sheds light on the state of our culture, communities and politics... I hope it can add something to the list being drawn up because I do think "Kingdom Christianity" may be the Christianity that can actually endure and overcome and has a real witness in our world.

[Josh]

Something I'm realising is that there are many kingdom Christian brotherhoods, but not every follower of Jesus should fit in well to any random kingdom Christian brotherhood.

We have a strong desire to feel accepted, and we also as believers feel an obligation to be inclusive and accepting. But sometimes it's simply not realistic, and it can distract us from our overall mission.

I think it would behoove us to try to establish as many kingdom churches as possible, because there are many different kinds of people. I personally don't fit in well, for example, to a church where most of the people come from ex plain backgrounds.

However it seems like such people do need a brotherhood too and a place to belong. A better question, for me, is finding ways to have an overall unity in the bond of peace with significantly different kinds of groups of people.