What they wore

[Soloist]

And it's all men

This notion that only women can speak to birth control is just as stupid as saying only men can speak about men abusers.

Or that only men can speak in church?

One is Biblically commanded.

[Sudsy]

This notion that only women can speak to birth control is just as stupid as saying only men can speak about men abusers.

Or that only men can speak in church?

One is Biblically commanded.

But any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled disgraces her head—it is one and the same thing as having her head shaved (1 Corinthians 11:5 NRSV).

Hmmm, don't know how one prophesies without speaking in church.

[Soloist]

Or that only men can speak in church?

One is Biblically commanded.

But any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled disgraces her head—it is one and the same thing as having her head shaved (1 Corinthians 11:5 NRSV).

Hmmm, don't know how one prophesies without speaking in church.

You are making an assumption that prophesy is only in the church.

[ABC 123]

Or that only men can speak in church?

One is Biblically commanded.

But any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled disgraces her head—it is one and the same thing as having her head shaved (1 Corinthians 11:5 NRSV).

Hmmm, don't know how one prophesies without speaking in church.

Nice tie in to the original topic. I was told women with head coverings don't get raped. (The last line of defense is crying out and its their fault if they don't. )

[Soloist]

One is Biblically commanded.

But any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled disgraces her head—it is one and the same thing as having her head shaved (1 Corinthians 11:5 NRSV).

Hmmm, don't know how one prophesies without speaking in church.

Nice tie in to the original topic. I was told women with head coverings don't get raped. (The last line of defense is crying out and its their fault if they don't. )

Sin does not justify further sin.

[Only an Anz]

And it's all men

This notion that only women can speak to birth control is just as stupid as saying only men can speak about men abusers.

.....? Not sure where you came to the conclusion that's what I was saying.

Finding irony in a thread about BC being all men =/= "there should be NO men talking about BC"

[Soloist]

And it's all men

This notion that only women can speak to birth control is just as stupid as saying only men can speak about men abusers.

.....? Not sure where you came to the conclusion that's what I was saying.

Finding irony in a thread about BC being all men =/= "there should be NO men talking about BC"

Based on your posts, I would have not been surprised if that was your view. As I was wrong, I'm happy to hear that you support men discussing birth control.

[PetrChelcicky]

In all cases of sexuality Mennonites are hampered by the lack of a precise and nuanced terminology. So there can be no effective rules about sexual behaviour. I always get grotesque non-information about "abuses" or "sexual assaults" - which can mean everything.
And I always get sermoned about "victims" who are "traumatized".

I admit that if you live in a gravely anti-sexual atmosphere, everything becomes traumatizing if it remotely reminds you that you are a sexual being. But perhaps the Amish should change that anti-sexual atmosphere with its language taboos?

The strange thing is that these are not Victorian bourgeois ladies which can afford to dress the legs of their tables so that they are not "naked". These are farmers! They spend a lot of their life with animals who are quite openly sexual. How do they combine a sober perspective on their livestock with extreme prudery in their social life?

[Only an Anz]

This notion that only women can speak to birth control is just as stupid as saying only men can speak about men abusers.

.....? Not sure where you came to the conclusion that's what I was saying.

Finding irony in a thread about BC being all men =/= "there should be NO men talking about BC"

Based on your posts, I would have not been surprised if that was your view. As I was wrong, I'm happy to hear that you support men discussing birth control.

I support a balanced discussion of it; ad hominem arguments not needed.

[Josh]

I recently heard some of the local Catholic hierarchy interviewed concerning sex abuse in the local archdiocese. In 2002 it was reported that 2% of their priest had been involved in sex abuse of some type. The archdiocese came up with a plan that involved church and law enforcement. Basically the church would handle the spiritual side of abuse investigations and law enforcement would handle the criminal side after immediate reporting. Those suspected of abuse would be immediately removed from their role in the church and restored only after law enforcement cleared them. Background checks were required for every church volunteer. The church made a public list of those who were accused of abuse. New church leaders were required to go through 2 days of mandatory reporting law training. The result of all of this? In the past 20 years there have been only 2 credible allegations of sex abuse by a priest in the local Catholic archdiocese. If the Catholics can do this, why can't the CA community?

From the interview though, a big part of the success was the church working with law enforcement. The church understood Romans 13 and realized they didn't have the skills needed to properly investigate and deal with criminal behavior. The local archdiocese trained 118,000 adults in 20 years and 65,000 children yearly on how to identify and report abuse. Again, can the CA community match the success of the Catholic church?

It’s interesting how law enforcement is worshipped as the solution to what is obviously a very serious sin and wickedness problem.

Lots of CAs are in Mexico and South America (and from what I hear is where abuse problems are the worst, although I don’t have hard evidence for that). Sometimes law enforcement there is very corrupt in those places. So what exactly would “working with law enforcement mean”?

CAs are not the RCC with a central hierarchy of authority. My own denomination fosters a strong relationship with law enforcement along with policies about abuse particularly for leadership, but other CA groups aren’t going to care at all what we are doing or adopt our policies. One might as well start saying “Why aren’t Turkmenistanis doing what the Catholic Church did about abuse?”

Ultimately, there is an assumption that CAs have an “abuse problem” when no facts point to this in evidence. The evidence is that they are the same, or better off, than the general population. As far as CA leadership, I know of no evidence they ever got as high as 2% of ordained men - and certainly MC USA never did either. This is tilting at windmills at its finest.