Valerie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 10:42 pm For 1500 years Believers had their infants baptized with no opposition until the Reformation.
That is an absolutely false. There were numerous groups prior to the 16th century who rejected infant baptism and the unbiblical practices of the RC church and who were hunted down and killed by the Popish devils.
Oh brother- you're focus is on one part of the world and ignoring that everywhere the Apostles took the Gospel & started Churches there was the practice of Believers baptizing their children-
So both "Believer's" baptism and as children were born to them, they took were baptized. This was not a "Roman Catholicism or Papist practice started centuries later.
Can you explain to us what, exactly, the value of baptising infants is?
Please stick to either the Bible or written sources for any “oral traditions” you claim.
Josh wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 8:59 pm
It was not taught by the apostles. zero evidence for that
I didn't realize you're old enough to have been there! I will agree with those that said they did teach it. You think they wrote everything down, but you're truly incorrect about that.
The absence of any clear examples is sufficient evidence.
Not at all.
The evidence is that the countries where the Apostles started Churches, they did this.
You will never really know because you were not there and your not considering the theology and Scriptures and oral traditions. The Church was never Sola Scriptura nor did Jesus say it would be nor did the Apostles say it would be it was the Church- the pillar and ground of the truth.
You can quarrel about it based on your interpretations, but others interpret differently on this using the same Bible- (I'm referring to the Protestants that support it)
Honestly I used to agree with you. I will not however ever see infant baptism as heresy, that is definitely as false accusation.
Josh wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2024 7:18 am
It seems then that someone can simply claim an “oral tradition” exists and justify almost anything, with zero evidence.
But that's not what's being done.
As someone called me out at claiming there was not opposition to it for 1500 years, I stand corrected:
"Opposition to infant baptism has been around since the Middle Ages, when groups like the Waldenses and Catharists rejected it. Nontrinitarian religious groups, such as Jehovah's Witnesses, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and Oneness Pentecostals, also oppose infant baptism. "
ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 11:22 pm
That is an absolutely false. There were numerous groups prior to the 16th century who rejected infant baptism and the unbiblical practices of the RC church and who were hunted down and killed by the Popish devils.
Oh brother- you're focus is on one part of the world and ignoring that everywhere the Apostles took the Gospel & started Churches there was the practice of Believers baptizing their children-
So both "Believer's" baptism and as children were born to them, they took were baptized. This was not a "Roman Catholicism or Papist practice started centuries later.
Can you explain to us what, exactly, the value of baptising infants is?
Please stick to either the Bible or written sources for any “oral traditions” you claim.
I suggest you talk to those more qualified. I spent time on the "Ask about the Orthodox Faith" group and seeking as swers from priests would be better. Look I didn't bring this up, just very upsetting to see it called "heresy" when it is not
Oh brother- you're focus is on one part of the world and ignoring that everywhere the Apostles took the Gospel & started Churches there was the practice of Believers baptizing their children-
So both "Believer's" baptism and as children were born to them, they took were baptized. This was not a "Roman Catholicism or Papist practice started centuries later.
Can you explain to us what, exactly, the value of baptising infants is?
Please stick to either the Bible or written sources for any “oral traditions” you claim.
I suggest you talk to those more qualified. I spent time on the "Ask about the Orthodox Faith" group and seeking as swers from priests would be better. Look I didn't bring this up, just very upsetting to see it called "heresy" when it is not
I don’t really care what people who hold to false doctrines and teach them want to say.
You keep telling us that some oral tradition makes something true. So, is this written down anywhere
The Orthodox certainly are heretics in the sense they chose schism in 1054 from the rest of Christianity. Their track record in the present era is not particularly inspiring, being essentially Putin’s state church.
Oh brother- you're focus is on one part of the world and ignoring that everywhere the Apostles took the Gospel & started Churches there was the practice of Believers baptizing their children-
So both "Believer's" baptism and as children were born to them, they took were baptized. This was not a "Roman Catholicism or Papist practice started centuries later.
Can you explain to us what, exactly, the value of baptising infants is?
Please stick to either the Bible or written sources for any “oral traditions” you claim.
I suggest you talk to those more qualified. I spent time on the "Ask about the Orthodox Faith" group and seeking as swers from priests would be better. Look I didn't bring this up, just very upsetting to see it called "heresy" when it is not
Why would anyone think people who bless warfair and armed conflict clearly forbidden to Christians? Who has a leader who has been referred to “Putin’s alter boy” by the catholic pope? Who is widely regarded as a former KGB agent?
Infant baptism is nowhere in the Bible. According to ALL Anabaptists it is a heresy, It is regarded as the chief popeish and repopish error. It serves no spiritual purpose except to delude people into thinking they are right with God when they are still dead in their sins.
You DO know that occultism is alive and well on Orthodox communities, right? You know what the evil eye is, and what the charms used to defend against it look like, right? You do know that orthodox Eastern Europe and Mediterranean regions are hotbeds of occultism? Have you seen Icons and other religious parafanalia used as a “charm.” Do you know how inconsistent this is? I sure do. I grew up among orthodox.
Attach yourself to an orthodox community for awhile and see if you are singing the same tune. You will find reality far different than your online friends have told you.
I suggest you talk to those more qualified. I spent time on the "Ask about the Orthodox Faith" group and seeking as swers from priests would be better. Look I didn't bring this up, just very upsetting to see it called "heresy" when it is not
You come to an Anabaptist forum under "Anabaptist Theology and Practice" and expect us not to call it heresy when it is?
If I did the same on an Orthodox group do you think I would be tolerated and not challenged?
Infant baptism will always be called heresy by "Anabaptists" either learn to accept it, learn to tolerate it, or learn to ignore it.
Valerie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 7:59 am
Splits from the very beginning, Amish, Mennonite, Hutterite should be an obvious indication this was not the Holy Spirit but "reaction" & everyone doing what was right in their own eyes.
I think you do not understand us at all. All three of these groups have the same core theology, and the differences that have developed over the years are largely ones of application. We can and do work together, recognize each others as believers, and give each other the freedom to order their churches the way they see fit. We have no pope or patriarch, and for that we thank God.
I have worked with members of all three movements. We regard each other as brothers and sisters.
As to “celestial flesh” I regard that as an opinion, not really a core doctrine. It is a minor point that does not impact how you worship or live your life. I don’t see it as the best way to express the incarnation, but nothing I would loose sleep over.
Valerie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 10:42 pm For 1500 years Believers had their infants baptized with no opposition until the Reformation.
That is an absolutely false. There were numerous groups prior to the 16th century who rejected infant baptism and the unbiblical practices of the RC church and who were hunted down and killed by the Popish devils.
Oh brother- you're focus is on one part of the world and ignoring that everywhere the Apostles took the Gospel & started Churches there was the practice of Believers baptizing their children-
So both "Believer's" baptism and as children were born to them, they took were baptized. This was not a "Roman Catholicism or Papist practice started centuries later.
Once again this was not universally practiced. Infant baptism is just one of various abuses or distortions of what the Bible actually teaches about baptism.