Progressive Conservative Mennonite Churches
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Re: Progressive Conservative Mennonite Churches
The next fundamental line that will be drawn in BMA in their search for Biblical purism will be atonement. They will be mandating a belief in PSA over Christus Victor.
I really hope this isn’t the case, but I’d be surprised if that doesn’t happen soon.
I really hope this isn’t the case, but I’d be surprised if that doesn’t happen soon.
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- Josh
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Re: Progressive Conservative Mennonite Churches
It would seem to me this isn’t going to be nearly as much of a flashpoint as dealing with the crowd trying to claim hell isn’t as described in the Bible.AnthonyMartin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 10:08 am The next fundamental line that will be drawn in BMA in their search for Biblical purism will be atonement. They will be mandating a belief in PSA over Christus Victor.
I really hope this isn’t the case, but I’d be surprised if that doesn’t happen soon.
BMA has already taken a stance against notorious Reformed doctrines such as “eternal security”.
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- Josh
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Re: Progressive Conservative Mennonite Churches
These churches already decided to essentially be evangelical Protestant doctrines with plain clothes on; to the extent they start looking at other backgrounds, it is merely because that’s what all the other evangelicals are doing, too.singitagain wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 10:00 am Joshbgood, I understand. I, too, seldom heard it preached on, and the one time I can remember, it had a Reformed slant. This concerns me. I feel like it has been avoided, because it can be difficult passage to understand. And because of the influence of Reformed theology in our culture, we tend to come to the passage with those presuppositions. But I think there is a way to understand the passage that is better intellectually, theologically and historically. I wrote a paper on Rom. 9-11 which I was going to attach, but the site doesn't seem to like the PDF format. Anyone who wants a copy can PM me.
Basically, I don't think Rom. 9 is talking about individual personal salvation. It is talking about God using the nation of Israel as His servant to bring the Gospel and the Messiah to the people of Israel and then to the world. This is established in the Book of Isaiah upon which Rom. 9-11 is based.
I could go on, but I wouldn't know where to stop. Joshb, as you are an educator, I would love to get your input (or that of anyone) on the subject. I would like to see it discussed from a CA perspective, rather than simply accepting the teaching of those from other backgrounds.
Discussing things from an actual Anabaptist perspective is almost culturally offensive to the progressive Anabaptist.
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Re: Progressive Conservative Mennonite Churches
I hope you’re right, but I expect it will be even more of a flashpoint.Josh wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 10:54 amIt would seem to me this isn’t going to be nearly as much of a flashpoint as dealing with the crowd trying to claim hell isn’t as described in the Bible.AnthonyMartin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 10:08 am The next fundamental line that will be drawn in BMA in their search for Biblical purism will be atonement. They will be mandating a belief in PSA over Christus Victor.
I really hope this isn’t the case, but I’d be surprised if that doesn’t happen soon.
BMA has already taken a stance against notorious Reformed doctrines such as “eternal security”.
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Re: Progressive Conservative Mennonite Churches
If this is the case, then it's time for them to take "Biblical" out of their name. (I am not espousing any one "View of the Atonement, Christus Victor, or any other. I think that the whole quest to establish any one view as "the only right one" is unbiblical. As I said earlier, both in other discussions and in this thread, the important part, the aim of God in the atonement, is over-looked, and the focus is wrongly placed on the mechanics of it. The Father deeply desired, and desires, reconciliation with his creation.)AnthonyMartin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 10:08 am The next fundamental line that will be drawn in BMA in their search for Biblical purism will be atonement. They will be mandating a belief in PSA over Christus Victor.
I really hope this isn’t the case, but I’d be surprised if that doesn’t happen soon.
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Congregation: Gospel Haven Mennonite Fellowship, Benton, Ohio (Holmes Co.) a split from Beachy-Amish Mennonite.
Personal heritage & general theological viewpoint: conservative Mennonite Brethren.
Personal heritage & general theological viewpoint: conservative Mennonite Brethren.
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Re: Progressive Conservative Mennonite Churches
I'd like to see that paper. You can email it to me at joshua.good@ephratamennonite.org.singitagain wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 10:00 am Joshbgood, I understand. I, too, seldom heard it preached on, and the one time I can remember, it had a Reformed slant. This concerns me. I feel like it has been avoided, because it can be difficult passage to understand. And because of the influence of Reformed theology in our culture, we tend to come to the passage with those presuppositions. But I think there is a way to understand the passage that is better intellectually, theologically and historically. I wrote a paper on Rom. 9-11 which I was going to attach, but the site doesn't seem to like the PDF format. Anyone who wants a copy can PM me.
Basically, I don't think Rom. 9 is talking about individual personal salvation. It is talking about God using the nation of Israel as His servant to bring the Gospel and the Messiah to the people of Israel and then to the world. This is established in the Book of Isaiah upon which Rom. 9-11 is based.
I could go on, but I wouldn't know where to stop. Joshb, as you are an educator, I would love to get your input (or that of anyone) on the subject. I would like to see it discussed from a CA perspective, rather than simply accepting the teaching of those from other backgrounds.
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Re: Progressive Conservative Mennonite Churches
Wonder what they will do with someone who answers the “which theory of the atonement do you believe “ with “Several of them?”AnthonyMartin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 10:08 am The next fundamental line that will be drawn in BMA in their search for Biblical purism will be atonement. They will be mandating a belief in PSA over Christus Victor.
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Re: Progressive Conservative Mennonite Churches
In that they all (the 8 or so I've seen described) reference Scripture, I would say that they all contain truth.Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Sun Dec 24, 2023 9:34 amWonder what they will do with someone who answers the “which theory of the atonement do you believe “ with “Several of them?”AnthonyMartin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 10:08 am The next fundamental line that will be drawn in BMA in their search for Biblical purism will be atonement. They will be mandating a belief in PSA over Christus Victor.
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Congregation: Gospel Haven Mennonite Fellowship, Benton, Ohio (Holmes Co.) a split from Beachy-Amish Mennonite.
Personal heritage & general theological viewpoint: conservative Mennonite Brethren.
Personal heritage & general theological viewpoint: conservative Mennonite Brethren.
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Re: Progressive Conservative Mennonite Churches
I think they would say that’s fine, as long as PSA is primaryJudas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Sun Dec 24, 2023 9:34 amWonder what they will do with someone who answers the “which theory of the atonement do you believe “ with “Several of them?”AnthonyMartin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 10:08 am The next fundamental line that will be drawn in BMA in their search for Biblical purism will be atonement. They will be mandating a belief in PSA over Christus Victor.
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Re: Progressive Conservative Mennonite Churches
I'm just the opposite. I think several of them have good Biblical basis excluding PSA. I'm ok with sacrificial atonement and to a certain degree, substitutionary atonement. But I think PSA, like many other fabricated doctrines, is heresy.AnthonyMartin wrote: ↑Sun Dec 24, 2023 11:29 amI think they would say that’s fine, as long as PSA is primaryJudas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Sun Dec 24, 2023 9:34 amWonder what they will do with someone who answers the “which theory of the atonement do you believe “ with “Several of them?”AnthonyMartin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 10:08 am The next fundamental line that will be drawn in BMA in their search for Biblical purism will be atonement. They will be mandating a belief in PSA over Christus Victor.
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The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"